Poudre à la Maréchale

[jfrater]

So, if you want to make an analogue of 1 kg of 20% tincture of the powder, mix 3.23 grams of the main composition (1/62 from 200 grams), add 6.8 grams of Benzoin Siam resinoid and 13.7 grams of liquidambar resinoid. Rest is ethanol.
This calculation is based on typical yields of essential oils and absolutes for each of ingredients used.

I am not sure this is going to give a satisfactory result but I do enjoy seeing your logical approach to the issue of reconstucting a classical material.

 

[Zongo]

Rumor goes that the old (like 300 years ago) ingredient Styrax was from Stryrax officinalis. But why then is it easy to buy the resin of Styrax tonkinensis and Styrax benzoin, but not from Styrax officinalis? I have found no evidence that the tree endagered ("This species has not yet been assessed for the IUCN Red List")?

P.S. Found the answer, the tree does not exsudate any resin.

 

[Mando]

I have a wonderful Marechal poudre infusion but it won't be ready for a while still. It is soft, spicy (clove and cinnamon), powdery (orris), woody (sandalwood), and floral (rose, orange flowers). When you smell it you understand why it was in L'Origan (the odour profiles have much in common). It is a wonderful fixative that is very versatile.

I keep checking your site to see when you post it for sale.

 

[parker25mv]

But why then is it easy to buy the resin of Styrax tonkinensis and Styrax benzoin, but not from Styrax officinalis?

Probably because officinalis is native to Europe and tonkinensis is native to Asia which is "lower income" and has a stronger driven export market.
There are a lot of more rare and obscure things that were once traditional in Europe that are not really commercialised because the niche market would be too small and the expense too high (with the higher cost of land and labor). (In other words the overall living standards in Europe are too high and people have better things to do than to start or work on a plantation supplying some rare ingredient)

 

[jfrater]

I keep checking your site to see when you post it for sale.

Edited: The marechal is ready but the other tinctures may be a little longer (except the spices). A few months is when most of the other tinctures will be ready (except animalics).

 

[jfrater]

The Marechal Poudre is actually ready earlier than I expected so it is now available on Fraterworks!

https://fraterworks.com/products/poudre-a-la-marechale-tincture

 

[Alex F.]

Here's my latest find, two recipes/formulas for poudres à la maréchale from the 19th century (I hope I got the numbers right, the handwriting can be hard to decipher):

Poudre a la Maréchale double (SOURCE)

Livres. / Onces. / Gros.
3 / 12 / - / Roses de Provins
4 / 8 / - / Bois de Ste. Lucie [Prunus mahaleb?]
3 / 12 / - / Souchet
3 / - / - / Santal citrin
3 / - / - / Ambrette
5 / - / - / Ecorces de bergamotte
3 / 12 / - / Storax en pains
5 / - / - / Bois de Cèdre
2[?] / - / - / Iris
1 / 4 / - / Piment
2 / 8 / - / Fleurs d'oranger sèches
1 / 4 / - / Benjoin
- / 2 / - / Cubèbes
- / 4 / - / Styrax liquide
- / 2 / - / d'oliban
- / 2 / - / Mastic en larmes
- / 4 / - / Graine de Céleri
- / 4 / - / Gérofle
- / 12 / - / Coriandre
- / 1 / - / Fleurs de Canelle[?]
- / 1 / - / Musc
Lorsque tous est reduit en poudre, ajouttez
- / 4 / - / Essence de bergamotte
- / 2 / - / " " citron
- / 2 / - / " " Portugal
- / 4 / - / " " Musc
- / - / 3 / Néroly


Poudre à la Maréchale, simple (SOURCE)

1 / 4 / - / Bois de Cèdre
- / 12 / - / Graine d'ambrette
- / 6 / - / Calamus
- / 6 / - / Orangeons
- / 6 / - / Piment
- / 3 / - / Gérofle
- / 6 / - / Roses de Provins
- / 6 / - / Bois Sa. Lucie
- / 8 / - / Ecorces de Bergamotte
- / 6 / - / Storax en pains
- / 6 / - / Iris
- / 2 / - / Fleurs d'oranger sèches
réduisez le tous en poudre

 

[jfrater]

Timely update to this post Alex! Yesterday my entire lot of Poudre a la marechale tincture got purchased so I spent the day making a new 20kg batch to go in to the pool.

Your "Double" formula is interesting - it blends a lot of resins in - I guess this lends it a bit of an oriental air. I use wild harvested benzoin tears but that is it on the resins front.

 

[Alex F.]

Timely update to this post Alex! Yesterday my entire lot of Poudre a la marechale tincture got purchased so I spent the day making a new 20kg batch to go in to the pool.

Your "Double" formula is interesting - it blends a lot of resins in - I guess this lends it a bit of an oriental air. I use wild harvested benzoin tears but that is it on the resins front.

Sounds like your business is taking off. Congratulations! I really appreciate what you do, bringing historical works of perfumery back to life and on the market. I hope my text contributions will inspire some experimenting among those interested in the old styles as well. That manuscript was a lucky find. But the double-formula is quite different again from the other formulas I've seen, even more complex, less focussed on the orris root. I was surprised by the addition of essential oils, and I didn't know about the cinnamon flowers - the dried buds are sold as a spice. The description sounds intriguing, I'll have to order some.

 

[jfrater]

Sounds like your business is taking off. Congratulations! I really appreciate what you do, bringing historical works of perfumery back to life and on the market. I hope my text contributions will inspire some experimenting among those interested in the old styles as well. That manuscript was a lucky find. But the double-formula is quite different again from the other formulas I've seen, even more complex, less focussed on the orris root. I was surprised by the addition of essential oils, and I didn't know about the cinnamon flowers - the dried buds are sold as a spice. The description sounds intriguing, I'll have to order some.

I would be very interested in your observations on the cinnamon flowers - I didn't know they were an item of commerce either!

 

[Tharrys78]

I had all my friends smell Jamie's product saying "ever wonder what old powdered wigs smelled like?". It is an interesting profile because it's spicy but to me a sort of "cold" spicy. How are the flowers added? Fresh petals?

 

[mnitabach]

Just received Jamie's tincture. I think I am going to try to make a modern aromachemical perfume but centering this material. BTW, just sniffing it, I think it would be great for soap!

 

[jfrater]

I had all my friends smell Jamie's product saying "ever wonder what old powdered wigs smelled like?". It is an interesting profile because it's spicy but to me a sort of "cold" spicy. How are the flowers added? Fresh petals?

Dried flowers - fresh petals are definitely not part of marechale tincture. Remember that this was originally a fragrant powder with various uses. As the need for it fell out of use, the rise of the tinctured powder arose.

As with my bases, I construct the powder with the very best materials I can - so I use Rose de mai petals, hand harvested clovebuds from Zanzibar (as opposed to the common madagascan ones), etc.

My Marechale powder also has natural ambergris in it so it's not vegan.

 

[jfrater]

In case anyone is interested, here's the latest 15 kilo batch of Poudre À La Maréchale tincture I put down this week. I keep a doculope on the side of all these tincture batches to keep the weighed out batch information plus any notes I may need to add over the months the product rests. Once the maceration time is up it will be chilled and ultra-fine filtered and stored in amber glass bottles.

 

[Tharrys78]

What does the % mean , for tinctures? The weight of the infused material over the weight of solvent? So a 20% tincture means, say, 2 kilos of powder and 10 kilos of alcohol?

 

[jfrater]

What does the % mean , for tinctures? The weight of the infused material over the weight of solvent? So a 20% tincture means, say, 2 kilos of powder and 10 kilos of alcohol?

It depends on the era. So yes generally what you said is true, but there are different approaches. Take civet as the best example. All of the formulas below would have been likely labelled as "Civet Tincture 10%"

100 Civet Paste
900 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,000

Formula B

100 Civet Paste
100 Orris Powder
900 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,100

Formula C

100 Civet Paste
1000 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,100

Formula D

100g Civet Paste
1 Litre Ethanol (~780g IIRC)
TOTAL = ~880g

We all tend to be a lot more scientific about our approach these days whereas in the past there were sometimes bases and formulas that suggest adding a material until it is "just right" - I've seen it with birch tar as one example - just keep adding until you find the balance - every batch would differ. It is due, I presume, to varying qualities of raw materials that were still made largely by hand. Here's a visual representation from Architecture of what that looks like:


The beams on this Tudor house were cut to be "just right". Still standing and still lived in 500 years later.

 

[tensor9]

It depends on the era. So yes generally what you said is true, but there are different approaches. Take civet as the best example. All of the formulas below would have been likely labelled as "Civet Tincture 10%"

100 Civet Paste
900 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,000

Formula B

100 Civet Paste
100 Orris Powder
900 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,100

Formula C

100 Civet Paste
1000 Ethanol
TOTAL = 1,100

Formula D

100g Civet Paste
1 Litre Ethanol (~780g IIRC)
TOTAL = ~880g

And only Formula A can correctly be characterized as 10%

 

[jfrater]

And only Formula A can correctly be characterized as 10%

And yet they can all be described as "10%" in some manner - despite not always being 10%. Or perhaps I'm doing common core maths So basically they ARE all 10% tinctures, depending on what it is 10% of...

Formula A & B: Blend 10% civet paste and 90% alcohol, (formula b: add equal parts orris to civet)
Formula C: Add 10% of the weight of alcohol in civet paste
Formula C: Add 10% by weight of civet to the volume of alcohol.

 

[tensor9]

Percentage has a nice, clean definition. Is the ratio of the component amount to the whole, normalized to 100.

B and C are 9.1% solutions
D is an 11.4% solution

Why must non-scientists make everything so difficult?

 

[jfrater]

Percentage has a nice, clean definition. Is the ratio of the component amount to the whole, normalized to 100.

B and C are 9.1% solutions
D is an 11.4% solution

Why must non-scientists make everything so difficult?

I was going to edit my original comment to make reference to how upset I would make the scientists and mathematicians with my rationale