Odor-depressing effect?

[simple.user]

Hello towards everyone reading!

Recently I've been reading through Arctander's book and discovered those particular phrases about Benzoin Resinoid: "It is generally applicable, but it has a pronounced odor-depressing effect upon the perfumes in which it is incorporated. This effect is closely connected with the fixative effect, and it is enhanced by the rich sweetness and deep balsamic notes from the resinoid."

What I've found interesting and something that I can't seem to grasp the explanation of, is the part with odor-depressing effect... . What do I mean is that, what is supposed to mean? Does Benzoin Resinoid tend to "suffocate" other ingredients in the perfume or does it become such a scent in the perfume that over time when you smell the perfume it dominates over other ingredients? Or something else?

Thanks.

 

[hednic]

This sounds like something that might be better answered if addressed in the Fragrance DIY Forum. Just a thought.

 

[CookBot]

This sounds like something that might be better answered if addressed in the Fragrance DIY Forum. Just a thought.

Definitely. I rang the "report" button to bring it to the Mods' attention.

 

[mnitabach]

Benzoin has odorant molecules in it that induce responses in the human olfactory system that can suppress the perception of other odorant molecules. This kind of "suppressive" effect is very very common in perfumery.

 

[achurs]

Benzoin has odorant molecules in it that induce responses in the human olfactory system that can suppress the perception of other odorant molecules. This kind of "suppressive" effect is very very common in perfumery.

That's a great info and completely new to me. This explains a lot to me concerning my usage of Benzoin in the past. You know any source where I can read about his?

 

[pkiler]

"The volatile extract composition of two different benzoin gums, Siam and Sumatra, were analysed by GC–MS. Twenty components representing more than 99.1% of the oil from Siam and 29 components representing more than 97.4% of the oil from Sumatra were analysed. The major components were benzyl benzoate (76.1–80.1%) for the two oils and benzoic acid (12.5%), methyl benzoate (1.5%) and allyl benzoate (1.5%) for Siam, and styrene (2.3%), cinnamic acid (3.5%) and benzyl cinnamate (3.3%) for Sumatra."

https://www.researchgate.net › 2301...
Volatile constituents of benzoin gums: Siam and Sumatra. Part 1 - ResearchGate

 

[simple.user]

Benzoin has odorant molecules in it that induce responses in the human olfactory system that can suppress the perception of other odorant molecules. This kind of "suppressive" effect is very very common in perfumery.

Super. The answer I've been waiting for. It is a great thing to know and to take in consideration. Thank you.

 

[Jolieo]

Reading about anything in perfumery is difficult- BN is actually the go to place
i do not know the exact mechanism- i doubt molecules combine to create an effect, so it is either molecules interacting on a physical level- ( bumping into each other) or having an effect on our nose
hedione subdued a formula I made- but it also flattened it- made all smell as if under a blanket- but hedione doesn't always have that effect - so it’s also a matter of dosage- that’s what makes it so hard- micro dosing and overdosing can have profound effects , only way to know is to do

 

[achurs]

"The volatile extract composition of two different benzoin gums, Siam and Sumatra, were analysed by GC–MS. Twenty components representing more than 99.1% of the oil from Siam and 29 components representing more than 97.4% of the oil from Sumatra were analysed. The major components were benzyl benzoate (76.1–80.1%) for the two oils and benzoic acid (12.5%), methyl benzoate (1.5%) and allyl benzoate (1.5%) for Siam, and styrene (2.3%), cinnamic acid (3.5%) and benzyl cinnamate (3.3%) for Sumatra."

https://www.researchgate.net › 2301...
Volatile constituents of benzoin gums: Siam and Sumatra. Part 1 - ResearchGate

Thank you for this info 😊👍
Can you tell me which component it is, which is responsible for the effect mnitabach told about? I know of the fixative effects of Benzyl Benzoate, but is it what it's about? 🤔

 

[RSG]

This is something that gets into territory no one is completely sure of. And I don't have an advanced degree in anything

You'd think that if you have all the same information about a group of molecules you can always predict their behavior but there are enough anomalous materials that that is not true. But there are some hints.

I believe that Benzyl Benzoate because it has a benzyl group and because it's an ester makes it bind to a more significant number of joint receptors thus blocking them compared to other things. It's also something that does not dissolve in water. This works at even a molecular level. Meaning more water-soluble things are cleared from your olfactory system faster than things that are not.

I've also read that no one really knows what the fixative effect really is regarding other materials either. Seems like it has something to do with Benzyl benzoate having such a low vapor pressure that it reduces the combined vapor pressure of other materials. But then it's like how does that happen? It was suggested it's either because benzyl benzoate can coat the more volatile molecules thus holding them down or benzyl benzoate has some molecular attraction to other molecules.

One way to compare flattening and fixative effects are to make a similar test mix and have one be benzyl benzoate, one of benzyl salicylate, and one of galaxolide.

 

[achurs]

Thank you, RSG. 😊👍
That's, by far, an absolutely satisfying answer to me. I'm somehow happy that you're not nof an advanced degree, as you say. I guess I wouldn't have understood a more scientific answer anyways. 😄

 

[LaFou]

This is something that gets into territory no one is completely sure of. And I don't have an advanced degree in anything

You'd think that if you have all the same information about a group of molecules you can always predict their behavior but there are enough anomalous materials that that is not true. But there are some hints.

I believe that Benzyl Benzoate because it has a benzyl group and because it's an ester makes it bind to a more significant number of joint receptors thus blocking them compared to other things. It's also something that does not dissolve in water. This works at even a molecular level. Meaning more water-soluble things are cleared from your olfactory system faster than things that are not.

I've also read that no one really knows what the fixative effect really is regarding other materials either. Seems like it has something to do with Benzyl benzoate having such a low vapor pressure that it reduces the combined vapor pressure of other materials. But then it's like how does that happen? It was suggested it's either because benzyl benzoate can coat the more volatile molecules thus holding them down or benzyl benzoate has some molecular attraction to other molecules.

One way to compare flattening and fixative effects are to make a similar test mix and have one be benzyl benzoate, one of benzyl salicylate, and one of galaxolide.

hi, you know I believe it doesn’t coat, but rather does 2 things, one is merge with other materials creating a new versions of mix materials with different vapor pressures but similar to the merged material
the other is cluster bind with other materials, making it seem like it has low vapor pressure! But reality it’s stuck between several ones!

I believe this might be true due to a fact That the dry down does not always reflect the smell of what the fixative should! You can tend to feel something like spikes in between!

cheers