New Directions UK - Fake oils? Frangipani, Neroli, Linden blossom etc

[Bobby7]

Hello All! After a 2 year hiatus I'm fully immersing myself back into the art of natural perfumery, I've ordered lots of new materials and am upgrading my perfumers organ, its all very exciting (and expensive of course!). I've just recieved an order from New Directions UK who in the past I regarded as a trustworthy source of naturals but some of their oils are falling into question for me, based on smell, apperance/consistency and price. Does anyone on here order from them? They have a great range of oils which are usually fresh and of good quality.

The oils in question from my latest order are:

Neroli essential oil - 5ml for £6.63 plus VAT (seems too cheap on price esp for steam distilled EO. Scent profile is good for a low end neroli I suppose)

Frangipani absolute PQ (perfume quality) 5ml £8.29 plus VAT (seems WAY too cheap, smells different to frangipani absolute I've had before and is a very mobile liquid rather than a semi waxythick substance but I know there are hundereds of different varieties of frangipani so this might be the problem?

Linden Blossom absolute - 5ml for £9.96 plus VAT (again way to too cheap and has a similar chemical fake smell like the frangipani unless i'm being paranoid/overly suspicious)

Rose Bulgarian absolute - 5ml for £20.79 plus VAT (again this seems way too cheap to be true and it seems too mobile in consistency although the scent profile is fairly accurate if not a little cloying and sweet......, if this is fake or adulterated I think this at least contains some genuine rose absolute)

So what do you guys think? Anyone experienced care to chime in here? Everything else i've ordered from them seems like really good quality, even the sandalwood East India at £37.46 plus VAT for 10ml, if this is adulterated they've done a damn good job, they claim to get this directly from state sponsered auctions in India.


Thank you so much everyone for all of your help, this is a great forum and I hope to be much more of an active member now and not just a curtain twitcher!

 

[Finelikeanoyster]

Hello Bobby, welcome !

Is really good to hear you want to be an active member, i think this forum needs more people to discuss, i think some people is shy, so because this the forum is a bit stagnated...

Is good to see you retake up perfumery, is a beautiful and very curious art.

Unfortunately i can't help you so much, because i never purchase at this store, and i not live in uk/europe. However is not because an oil is cheap is not good or is a falsification, the only i found strange is your description about the rose abs.

 

[Bobby7]

Thank you! I don't know why its taken me so many years to actually post in here, you are absolutely right, if more people discuss things the more help we can be to each other! Before realising that the frangipani is probably a fake oil, I didn't question the other oils but now I don't know what to believe. I hope I am mistaken but I feel so upset that they do this, they're one of the bigger companies here in uk, usa and australia. Transparancy is everything in this game....

 

[Finelikeanoyster]

Oh frangipani is a falsification ? at hermitage exists a frangipani's abs, but can be a diluted abs, instead of pure. Does can the same with rose ? this is sad

 

[parker25mv]

The general rule in Perfumery material sourcing is, if the price sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
There's all sorts of fake stuff being peddled from China, Southeast Asia and India. Often times these vendors are completely shameless.
The society in these countries just a completely different culture, with very different ethical standards from the ones we are used to.
In India, even the devout religious people make an exception for lying when it involves a merchant conducting their business, since it's pretty much seen as "you have to lie in business".

It gets more confusing because Western sellers may often source their materials from Asia.

In all fairness, some of these synthetics can smell really close to the real thing. But that really depends on what the specific material is. Some naturals are much easier to realistically copy than others.

 

[Finelikeanoyster]

with very different ethical standards from the ones we are used to.

Where exists humans exists liers, not all however, but when treat about commerce... in old greece hermes is the god of 'informations' n thieves, n merchants too

 

[Bobby7]

The general rule in Perfumery material sourcing is, if the price sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
There's all sorts of fake stuff being peddled from China, Southeast Asia and India. Often times these vendors are completely shameless.
The society in these countries just a completely different culture, with very different ethical standards from the ones we are used to.
In India, even the devout religious people make an exception for lying when it involves a merchant conducting their business, since it's pretty much seen as "you have to lie in business".

It gets more confusing because Western sellers may often source their materials from Asia.

In all fairness, some of these synthetics can smell really close to the real thing. But that really depends on what the specific material is. Some naturals are much easier to realistically copy than others.

I'm going to contact them and find out what the deal is and see what they say. They offer everything in quantities up to 25 kilos, I just got my head around the price when ordering by thinking they must be ordering such large quantities that they're able to offer it so cheaply. Lesson learned! The problem when you lose trust in a company like this is that it calls into question all of the other products I have from them and I'd hate to think I was working with naturals to later discover half of it wasn't! The Indian sandalwood is really good, I can't fault it but now I start to wonder what this may be extended or adulterated with too. Even if thats not the case, I can't enjoy it fully because of the other products in question and dont know what to believe!

Perhaps they're not aware but then if thats the case I lose faith in them for not having proffessionals on their team who are evaluating their products correctly and can recognize obviously fake oils. I will update this week what happens.

All we want is transparancy right? To know that what we are buying is authentic. Don't call it an undiluted absolute if it isn't! Charge accordingly. Can you imagine if tesco were found to be selling so called 'organic' food when it wasn't? there'd be outrage! New Directions are not just some small time ebay sellers either, they're big players

 

[Finelikeanoyster]

I really expect is not a false materials, sometimes can be mix of 1st and 2nd quality mix, or only a 2nd, i not know, its very dishonesty by any form. But keep calm, the things can solve easily, i expect

 

[pkiler]

New Directions has a very spotty history of not providing real - high end naturals products.
I cannot recommend such purchases.

Lower end naturals seem OK. I buy my Buchu from New Directions, but that's all that I can freely recall right now.

But this whole issue is part of why I now make my own Neroli and Plumeria bases.

Since they don't really include exotic molecules, they can be accomplished with some education. AND, Plumeria Absolute doesn't really smell like the fresh flower anyway, and that's the odor profile that I really want, after all...

 

[Bobby7]

New Directions has a very spotty history of not providing real - high end naturals products.
I cannot recommend such purchases.

Lower end naturals seem OK. I buy my Buchu from New Directions, but that's all that I can freely recall right now.

But this whole issue is part of why I now make my own Neroli and Plumeria bases.

Since they don't really include exotic molecules, they can be accomplished with some education. AND, Plumeria Absolute doesn't really smell like the fresh flower anyway, and that's the odor profile that I really want, after all...

Thanks Paul! I've looked deeper into the new directions website and found that the safety data and analysis sheets for the frangipani 'absolute' state that its a 'mixed natural and synthetic fragrance composition'. Interestingly, not every product on the site seems to have the identification aspect of the paperwork included in the smallprint like this one does. I feel relieved that theres at least a trace of transparancy here but why put this product in the absolute oil section of site instead of the fragrance oil section? I guess 'perfume quality' means that its not natural rather than it being a superior natural destined for fine fragrance as suggested. I'll be having strong words with ND thats for sure!

Out of interest do you make your plumeria bases from aroma chems or natural isolates?

 

[pkiler]

Out of interest do you make your plumeria bases from aroma chems or natural isolates?

Since all single molecules are the same, whether synthetically derived aroma chemicals, or so called "isolates", you have to make the choice only which set of impurities that you want to pay for, and whether you want to subscribe to the philosophy of "Natural". It is difficult for me to rationalize spending 10X - 20X the $ for the same molecule and same effect in a perfume, for a molecule refined from a natural substance, if the synthetic version is available and a lot cheaper. This is not to say that I don't actually buy and use those molecules refined from a natural raw materials starting point, but I think it might only be 4-5 that are residents of my lab. The two that come to mind easily are Benzyl Acetate and Viridoflorol.

The only difference between the two types of molecules discussed here, is the set of impurities that they come with from their origin, and of course then, the difference in cost, carbon footprint, and sustainability of their production.

Without really even looking at my Plumeria formula, I think it is safe to say that I likely didn't use any natural origin molecules in my Plumeria base.

 

[Olleh]

Hi

I am a newbie to the forum.

I was searching the internet regarding fake oils from Mystic Moments in the UK, who i believe is the same company as New Directions.

I have been purchasing essential oils from them for a few years and over the years i have had quite a few questionable essential oils from them. I do realise that particular essential oils are extremely expensive and to see a cheap bargain is too good to be true. I have tried their "italian" neroli oil which did smell quite nice although it didn't smell like neroli and more like something mixed in with it. I decided to take a chance and buy a 5ml bottle of their tunisian neroli for £18.95 (quite a lot cheaper than other websites) and this smelled like straight petitgrain oil and was quite annoyed that this company is just selling petitgrain oil for £18.95 which is very overpriced for petitgrain.

I have to admit i am not an expert at oils and fall into the category of one of those buyers that lack knowledge and am still learning. I don't believe that this company is unaware that they are selling essential oils that are not the real thing. As i am learning the scents of essential oils i have realised that i have purchased oils from this company such as frankincense, lavender, peppermint, rosemary and many more that at the time just didn't smell right and then some times i would buy a bottle of lavender oil and it would smell really good and the same purchase it would have this smell of bubblegum scent to it.

I am annoyed about the neroli oil being overpriced petitgrain oil and that this company is being dishonest. It would be great if people could discuss this subject more because companies are selling essential oils that we have no idea what is actually in them and if people are using these oils for baths/skincare etc you just can't say for sure what you are putting onto your skin. I know it is the responsibility of the buyer to research and buy the best oils but it still isn't right that these companies are being dishonest, especially in the the UK/EU, there is many regulations to follow and i'm wondering how they are still able to operate.

Sorry for the long post but i thought it might be of some interest to add my experience and to anyone else questioning this company.

 

[neroli1970]

Hi

I am a newbie to the forum.

I was searching the internet regarding fake oils from Mystic Moments in the UK, who i believe is the same company as New Directions.
...

You are correct. Mystic Moments is the same company as New Directions UK. I do not think New Directions UK has any affiliation with New Directions Canada/Australia. New Directions UK is obviously selling fake/adulterated oils for those prices. So many other great companies to choose from that offer affordable and high quality essential oils.

 

[Bobby7]

Hi

I am a newbie to the forum.

I was searching the internet regarding fake oils from Mystic Moments in the UK, who i believe is the same company as New Directions.

I have been purchasing essential oils from them for a few years and over the years i have had quite a few questionable essential oils from them. I do realise that particular essential oils are extremely expensive and to see a cheap bargain is too good to be true. I have tried their "italian" neroli oil which did smell quite nice although it didn't smell like neroli and more like something mixed in with it. I decided to take a chance and buy a 5ml bottle of their tunisian neroli for £18.95 (quite a lot cheaper than other websites) and this smelled like straight petitgrain oil and was quite annoyed that this company is just selling petitgrain oil for £18.95 which is very overpriced for petitgrain.

I have to admit i am not an expert at oils and fall into the category of one of those buyers that lack knowledge and am still learning. I don't believe that this company is unaware that they are selling essential oils that are not the real thing. As i am learning the scents of essential oils i have realised that i have purchased oils from this company such as frankincense, lavender, peppermint, rosemary and many more that at the time just didn't smell right and then some times i would buy a bottle of lavender oil and it would smell really good and the same purchase it would have this smell of bubblegum scent to it.

I am annoyed about the neroli oil being overpriced petitgrain oil and that this company is being dishonest. It would be great if people could discuss this subject more because companies are selling essential oils that we have no idea what is actually in them and if people are using these oils for baths/skincare etc you just can't say for sure what you are putting onto your skin. I know it is the responsibility of the buyer to research and buy the best oils but it still isn't right that these companies are being dishonest, especially in the the UK/EU, there is many regulations to follow and i'm wondering how they are still able to operate.

Sorry for the long post but i thought it might be of some interest to add my experience and to anyone else questioning this company.

Do not apologise this is serious stuff and they absolutely need to be called out on it, I sent the oils back and suggested they stop advertising their synthetic oils in the naturals section and their response was very 'couldn't care less'. I then sent them a much longer email demanding it be passed on to their senior management team and stated very clearly all of the reasons they need to be more transparent about what they're actually selling and that they hadn't even addressed my concerns or answered the questions I'd asked. This was their response...

Good Morning



Thank you for your email.

I am sorry you feel dismissed by our reply.



The email was passed to senior management as well.

The neroli oil is natural but it is a blend of natural components, which is reflected in the price. The Neroli Premium however is 100% pure.

The Linden Blossom is 100% pure and natural.

The Sandalwood and Rose Bulgarian are also 100% pure and natural.



We are more than happy to send you any technical documents you need, if you provide the batch numbers we can send the correct data to you.

I did not hear anything back from them after this. The linden blossom was not a genuine absolute although they try to tell me it is, wrong smell wrong consistency, just a whole world of wrong. Their tarragon oil smelled exactly like the basil oil I ordered from them 2 years ago, I mean you cannot tell them apart.

I won't be ordering from them again, even their genuine products are tarnished for me, I don't want to doubt or 2nd guess or be disappointed again. New directions UK and their offshoots (mystic moments etc) are clearly not to be trusted, they lack transparency, lie when confronted or just don't have any specialists to analyse and evaluate their oils properly. It's disgusting behaviour and not fair that we spend our hard earned cash on crap that probably costs them pennies.

I had no idea they were not affiliated with new directions USA, they didn't mention that when I said I'd been a happy customer of the USA branch many years ago when I lived there!

Charletans!

 

[LuisJavier]

It's strange hearing all these comments on this thread. I've been ordering from Mystic Moments for quite a long time and compared their essential oils and fragrance oils from those of other suppliers such as Pell Wall, Hermitage Oils, FreshSkin, Sensory Perfection, etc and I have found Mystic Moments to supply good essential oils, though I have found their fragrance oils to be, in general, absolutely terrible for use in candles. Now, that may be because those fragrance oils were more suited to a soy base than paraffin, which I often use, so I cannot say for certain if their FOs are terrible. The scent profile and strength of the FOs are decent; I will not deny that.

Mystic Moments have also recently started offering aromachems on sale on their website which was a pleasant surprise for me since their product rates and shipping are very affordable. I have not found a single fault in any of the fragrance aromachems I have ordered from them, to the possible exception that they package size above 10ml in plastic (PETE) which does not seem ideal for substances such as benzyl alcohol or benzyl acetate (then again I may be totally wrong since I do not have extensive knowledge in this field) because PETE, according to Wikipedia, can leach into the substances it comes into contact with over a long period of time.

In regards to the experiences of some user/s above, I tend to avoid buying very expensive absolutes or EOs such as those of neroli or rose and I would prefer to make a synthetic accord myself so maybe that is why I have not run into the issues described above. On a final note, I am quite tempted by the virginian cedarwood EO offering due to how affordable it is and my suspicion that it is of a very good quality; I suspect this because I already sampled their Himalayan cedarwood and I could not find fault with it.

 

[neroli1970]

It's strange hearing all these comments on this thread. I've been ordering from Mystic Moments for quite a long time and compared their essential oils and fragrance oils from those of other suppliers such as Pell Wall, Hermitage Oils, FreshSkin, Sensory Perfection, etc and I have found Mystic Moments to supply good essential oils, though I have found their fragrance oils to be, in general, absolutely terrible for use in candles. Now, that may be because those fragrance oils were more suited to a soy base than paraffin, which I often use, so I cannot say for certain if their FOs are terrible. The scent profile and strength of the FOs are decent; I will not deny that.

Do you think it is possible to purchase pure Helichrysum italicum essential oil at £39.96 for 10ml? That is almost half what other reputable companies are selling it for. Or organic lavender at £8.29 for 1 ounce? The prices are just way off to be pure oils. They are selling at below market cost in some cases. The fact that they smell good doesn't mean they aren't fake/adulterated.

 

[LuisJavier]

Do you think it is possible to purchase pure Helichrysum italicum essential oil at £39.96 for 10ml? That is almost half what other reputable companies are selling it for. Or organic lavender at £8.29 for 1 ounce? The prices are just way off to be pure oils. They are selling at below market cost in some cases. The fact that they smell good doesn't mean they aren't fake/adulterated.

Firstly, the price of 10ml of the Immortelle EO is £42.95 not £39.96. Although it is a small difference, it is a difference and it makes me wonder where you are getting your numbers from. Secondly, could you give me the name of another reputable vendor who sells helchrysum that you would buy from that is considerably more expensive? Thirdly, many companies make huge profits from these oils so I am not surprised if other companies wish to ramp up their prices in comparison to Mystic Moments. Fourthly, I can understand you suspecting that they might be adulterated but do you have any proof apart from suspicion? If you suspect that they may have nailed an immortelle accord using individual aromachems, or that they are doing something else, I would suspect that maybe that is illegal as they put in their files open to the public the CAS number and name of the oil. Lastly, I am aware of plenty of other suppliers who also sell essential oils very cheaply which I myself have sampled. I am open to hearing your response.

 

[neroli1970]

Firstly, the price of 10ml of the Immortelle EO is £42.95 not £39.96. Although it is a small difference, it is a difference and it makes me wonder where you are getting your numbers from. Secondly, could you give me the name of another reputable vendor who sells helchrysum that you would buy from that is considerably more expensive? Thirdly, many companies make huge profits from these oils so I am not surprised if other companies wish to ramp up their prices in comparison to Mystic Moments. Fourthly, I can understand you suspecting that they might be adulterated but do you have any proof apart from suspicion? Unless you think they may have nailed an immortelle accord using individual aromachems, or that they are doing something else, I would suspect that maybe that is illegal as they put in their files open to the public the CAS number and name of the oil. I am open to hearing your response.

The price I quoted was directly from their website and did not include VAT. Oshadhi UK would be one reputable supplier. Florihana in France is another reputable company. Unless they are providing batch specific GC-MS reports from a trusted 3rd party lab, I wouldn't trust them.

 

[LuisJavier]

The price I quoted was directly from their website and did not include VAT. Oshadhi UK would be one reputable supplier. Florihana in France is another reputable company. Unless they are providing batch specific GC-MS reports from a trusted 3rd party lab, I wouldn't trust them.

Oshadhi offer Apricot Kernel carrier oil at £26.25 for 200ml. They also offer cocoa butter at £39.25 for 250 ml and 1 ml of Violet Leaf Absolute (75% in 25% organic alcohol) for £22.25. Don't their prices sound a bit ridiculous to you? I personally recommend Augustus oils if you wish to avoid Mystic Moments. I have not contacted Augustus Oils for EO enquiries but for a candle-related solvent and their prices seemed very reasonably priced.

 

[Bobby7]

Firstly, the price of 10ml of the Immortelle EO is £42.95 not £39.96. Although it is a small difference, it is a difference and it makes me wonder where you are getting your numbers from. Secondly, could you give me the name of another reputable vendor who sells helchrysum that you would buy from that is considerably more expensive? Thirdly, many companies make huge profits from these oils so I am not surprised if other companies wish to ramp up their prices in comparison to Mystic Moments. Fourthly, I can understand you suspecting that they might be adulterated but do you have any proof apart from suspicion? If you suspect that they may have nailed an immortelle accord using individual aromachems, or that they are doing something else, I would suspect that maybe that is illegal as they put in their files open to the public the CAS number and name of the oil. Lastly, I am aware of plenty of other suppliers who also sell essential oils very cheaply which I myself have sampled. I am open to hearing your response.

Mystic moments are possibly none the wiser about their repackaged nduk products, the fact they sell larger quantities in plastic bottles also raises alarm bells for me, this just isn't industry standard.

The proof that you're asking about was shown to me in their response to my complaint in that the neroli 'essential oil' was in fact a blend of naturals and not true nerli oil and that was 'reflected in the price' so I'm assuming they rely on the customer to determine the authenticity of their products based on price which is already a red flag not to mention that I had to download 3 different very confusing analysis firms to discover that the 'frangipani absolute' was synthetic. Why call it an absolute then?

Further proof in my evaluation of the linden blossom 'absolute' is not mere suspicion, it barely resembled true linden blossom in any way and like yourself, I had a hard time accepting that I'd been mis-sold/robbed.

Ive lost all faith in them, they prob don't aldulterate the cheaper oils like cedarwood and peppermint but they did send me basil oil labelled tarragon and their Mandarin oil to my nose way way past its sell by date.

There should be stricter laws against this type of fraud but who to complain to? In the meantime they continue to focus on profits and not on transparency, ligitimacy or customer care