Making huile de parfum (perfume oil) NOT fragrance oil! :)

[wesleycamp]

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to try and ask about this topic without triggering anyone... hard to do in these forums!! I have read through several threads and I feel like people are trying to ask these questions, but they're using the wrong language and getting scolded for it... so here goes!

I'm new to being a hobby perfumer. That said, I don't expect instant gratification and I understand that learning perfumery is a lifelong endeavor. The thing is, I prefer perfume oils over alcohol-based fragrances (I just like the way the smell is more for my own enjoyment and doesn't fill the room, and it lacks the intense aroma or projection from a lot of commercial perfumes). Some of my favorites, for example, are Persian Garden, White Ginger & Egyptian Musk by Kuuma Made, Nemat Amber, Love by Auric Blends, Ambre Blends Essence, etc. A lot of these are considered "skin scents" or "your skin but better." To me, wearing them just makes me feel good and I enjoy the subtle fragrance - especially ones that have some staying power.

I AM NOT trying to blend cheap pre-made "fragrance oils" and I'm not trying to waste anyone's time asking about combining oil and alcohol - LOL at some of the posts I've read! I'm also not trying to recreate an existing fragrance.

What I AM trying to do is create some nice oil perfumes... that is, a blend of aromachemicals and absolutes/EOs in a carrier oil like fractionated coconut (or similar carriers like jojoba, DPG, etc.) rather than perfumer's alcohol. There is very little information out there, however, as to how to create a fragrance in this way that has the olfactory "oomph" that some of the available fragrances offer. Kuumba Made's Egyptian Musk, for instance, has a pronounced fresh sweet scent right out of the bottle, and lasts several hours (even days on clothing). I understand they still use musk ketone, which is something I have not experimented with yet because it seems to come with some negative health effects. But I wonder, what are some of the aroma compounds that can have this effect in an oil carrier?

One thing I've noticed when working with oil carrier is that the aroma compounds don't behave the way they would in alcohol (obviously ). A lot of the molecules need the diffusion from the alcohol to really impact the scent the way they're supposed to. In oil carrier, some require using in super high concentration to be noticeable (that can't be good for skin). I think the most ideal molecules for making fragrance this way would have a strong, pleasant fragrance on their own... like dihydro myrcenol. That way, only a minimal amount needs to be used to impact the aroma, and I can keep my carrier-to-concentrate ratio at a skin-safe level.

Does anyone have suggestions for other aromachemicals (or specific accords or bases, or naturals) to try out? Soft, sweet, floral, musky, powdery, woodsy, mysterious, etc... but powerful enough to still shine through after dilution in oil carrier. I LOVE ambroxan - I could wear ambroxan 10% (in DPG) ON ITS OWN and be perfectly happy (probably also not the best for skin lol). Obviously dihydro myrcenol because it's super strong and provides a "fresh" element that I enjoy. It has a great impact even as low at .05%. Neryl acetate and methyl ionone alpha extra are nice as well. What are some other molecules I should be studying?

Thanks everyone in advance!

 

[Solua Botanica]

You are really going to create a perfume and that's the way to go. Congrats on your creativity !
People fall for fragrance oils because they think the creative process can be skipped, but that ends up smelling like...a fragrance oil !
I've worked with jojoba and fractionated coconut and even though I switched to alcohol based perfumes at some point, I still make jojoba concoctions because I have a good demand for it.
One thing I could advise would be to research your ACs and EOs on Thegoodscentscompany page, you can check the compatible solvents.
Some ACs are not soluble in oils. Some are solids or powders and can be a pain to dissolve.
But with a stirring hotplate or a mini crockpot, you can work some magic.
Benzyl Benzoate can also help you dissolve some things.
You can tincture some resins in your oil, it will make a potent base for your creations.
Keep in mind that you need a larger dose of top notes because oil does not evaporate like alcohol, so less diffusion.
You need to have a good percentage of concentrate when you just use EOs and absolutes.
There are some very potent ACs that can be used at low %, but I don't have experience with that in oils.
I would say the best thing to do is to evaluate your materials diluted in oil. Just make a small dilution and test them on scent strips and on skin.
Once you know their potency and their longevity, you can have a better idea on how to combine them.
Most important of all, have fun !

 

[flagellum]

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to try and ask about this topic without triggering anyone... hard to do in these forums!! I have read through several threads and I feel like people are trying to ask these questions, but they're using the wrong language and getting scolded for it... so here goes!

I'm new to being a hobby perfumer. That said, I don't expect instant gratification and I understand that learning perfumery is a lifelong endeavor. The thing is, I prefer perfume oils over alcohol-based fragrances (I just like the way the smell is more for my own enjoyment and doesn't fill the room, and it lacks the intense aroma or projection from a lot of commercial perfumes). Some of my favorites, for example, are Persian Garden, White Ginger & Egyptian Musk by Kuuma Made, Nemat Amber, Love by Auric Blends, Ambre Blends Essence, etc. A lot of these are considered "skin scents" or "your skin but better." To me, wearing them just makes me feel good and I enjoy the subtle fragrance - especially ones that have some staying power.

I AM NOT trying to blend cheap pre-made "fragrance oils" and I'm not trying to waste anyone's time asking about combining oil and alcohol - LOL at some of the posts I've read! I'm also not trying to recreate an existing fragrance.

What I AM trying to do is create some nice oil perfumes... that is, a blend of aromachemicals and absolutes/EOs in a carrier oil like fractionated coconut (or similar carriers like jojoba, DPG, etc.) rather than perfumer's alcohol. There is very little information out there, however, as to how to create a fragrance in this way that has the olfactory "oomph" that some of the available fragrances offer. Kuumba Made's Egyptian Musk, for instance, has a pronounced fresh sweet scent right out of the bottle, and lasts several hours (even days on clothing). I understand they still use musk ketone, which is something I have not experimented with yet because it seems to come with some negative health effects. But I wonder, what are some of the aroma compounds that can have this effect in an oil carrier?

One thing I've noticed when working with oil carrier is that the aroma compounds don't behave the way they would in alcohol (obviously ). A lot of the molecules need the diffusion from the alcohol to really impact the scent the way they're supposed to. In oil carrier, some require using in super high concentration to be noticeable (that can't be good for skin). I think the most ideal molecules for making fragrance this way would have a strong, pleasant fragrance on their own... like dihydro myrcenol. That way, only a minimal amount needs to be used to impact the aroma, and I can keep my carrier-to-concentrate ratio at a skin-safe level.

Does anyone have suggestions for other aromachemicals (or specific accords or bases, or naturals) to try out? Soft, sweet, floral, musky, powdery, woodsy, mysterious, etc... but powerful enough to still shine through after dilution in oil carrier. I LOVE ambroxan - I could wear ambroxan 10% (in DPG) ON ITS OWN and be perfectly happy (probably also not the best for skin lol). Obviously dihydro myrcenol because it's super strong and provides a "fresh" element that I enjoy. It has a great impact even as low at .05% - so, what other molecules should I be studying?

Thanks everyone in advance!

Have fun but please never mix ethylene brassylate (a quite feminine silky musk) with oil, it will almost immediately become rancid and stink. I tried only once with oil and turned to alcohol too after that. But I do love the idea of perfume oils which stay close to the skin. Be careful, because superambers and vanilla molecules will still project even in oil, in order to come back to your question. By superambers I mean things like Norlimbanol, Karanal, Ambrocenide etc.

 

[pkiler]

If you work in an oil substrate, you need to invert the amounts of materials, ie: you need much more topnotes than basenotes, whereas, in an alcohol perfume, you need much more basenotes than topnotes.

 

[Mr.P]

There is a long tradition of perfume like this in India and the Middle East - the products often called attars. The best ones don’t have any carrier oils at all but are just 100% essential oils. I greatly prefer these to the alcohol based concoctions and good attars are every bit as sophisticated.

And it is pretty amusing how many disclaimers you felt had to be put into your message to avoid invoking scorn from the know-it-alls… sheesh

 

[Culpa Ire]

And it is pretty amusing how many disclaimers you felt had to be put into your message to avoid invoking scorn from the know-it-alls… sheesh

Ha!

As I was reading I thought to myself “Jeez, although they only joined yesterday, they know how this shit goes down.” I decided I would leap to their defence if it took a turn in that direction. It’s good you highlight this point.

Anyway, no need for me to derail this any further.

 

[wesleycamp]

Ha!

As I was reading I thought to myself “Jeez, although they only joined yesterday, they know how this shit goes down.” I decided I would leap to their defence if it took a turn in that direction. It’s good you highlight this point.

Anyway, no need for me to derail this any further.

Thank you for having my back I definitely read a lot of threads before joining so I wanted to make sure I was clear about my goals, without using language that would send the conversation in a different direction. Cheers!

 

[wesleycamp]

You are really going to create a perfume and that's the way to go. Congrats on your creativity !
People fall for fragrance oils because they think the creative process can be skipped, but that ends up smelling like...a fragrance oil !
I've worked with jojoba and fractionated coconut and even though I switched to alcohol based perfumes at some point, I still make jojoba concoctions because I have a good demand for it.
One thing I could advise would be to research your ACs and EOs on Thegoodscentscompany page, you can check the compatible solvents.
Some ACs are not soluble in oils. Some are solids or powders and can be a pain to dissolve.
But with a stirring hotplate or a mini crockpot, you can work some magic.
Benzyl Benzoate can also help you dissolve some things.
You can tincture some resins in your oil, it will make a potent base for your creations.
Keep in mind that you need a larger dose of top notes because oil does not evaporate like alcohol, so less diffusion.
You need to have a good percentage of concentrate when you just use EOs and absolutes.
There are some very potent ACs that can be used at low %, but I don't have experience with that in oils.
I would say the best thing to do is to evaluate your materials diluted in oil. Just make a small dilution and test them on scent strips and on skin.
Once you know their potency and their longevity, you can have a better idea on how to combine them.
Most important of all, have fun !

Thank you for the tips! Resin tincture is an interesting idea... I was experimenting with some very resinous oakmass EO and noticed how much it boosted the fragrance! Good to know about upping the top notes as well!

 

[wesleycamp]

Have fun but please never mix ethylene brassylate (a quite feminine silky musk) with oil, it will almost immediately become rancid and stink. I tried only once with oil and turned to alcohol too after that. But I do love the idea of perfume oils which stay close to the skin. Be careful, because superambers and vanilla molecules will still project even in oil, in order to come back to your question. By superambers I mean things like Norlimbanol, Karanal, Ambrocenide etc.

Great advice! I've tried several musks; none are as strong as I would like unfortunately, but I'll be cautious with EB. I don't mind some projection... I might give Karanal a try. I like ambery notes that aren't too vanilla. Thanks!

 

[wesleycamp]

If you work in an oil substrate, you need to invert the amounts of materials, ie: you need much more topnotes than basenotes, whereas, in an alcohol perfume, you need much more basenotes than topnotes.

Thanks! I definitely have a lot more top notes on my list of compounds to try out!

 

[Solua Botanica]

What are some other molecules I should be studying?

This is a broad question since there are so many aromatic materials available.
It is tempting to just buy a bunch of diverse stuff, but I would advise against that. It's best to build your collection slowly and know the materials you own. Just focus on what you want to create, then research and buy the materials you think are suited for that.
Later, when you work on something else, you will end up buying another batch and so it goes...few years later into the hobby, you will own hundreds of bottles and you will know how to use them because you bought them out of necessity and figured how to use them.
It still amazes me when I think about all the diverse blends I can create with a simple palette of 20-30 materials.

This is not a definitive list, but here's a few staples you should try (no order of importance)
Bergamot, Orange, Rose, Labdanum, Oakmoss, Patchouli, Benzoin, Vetiver, Geranium, Clary Sage, Cedars, Cypresses and Junipers(many), Lavender, Clove, Myrrh, Frankincense, Galbanum, Violet, Ylang, Jasmine, Basil, Vanilla, Black Pepper... I could keep going, but these are some of my most used oils.
Try buying from different sources to compare the difference, sometimes it's night and day !

Forgot to mention that Amyris and Copaiba are very useful for blending with oil.
Also keep in mind that the maturation of an oil blend can take a little longer, be patient and keep in a warm place.