• We're half back! There's a lot missing, but you can find out more here,

    You are now able to log into the forums and post

Labdanum Questions

Cavallo

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2012
52
20
It's been quite a few years now since I ordered raw, Spanish labdanum resin from Scents of Earth. I was mostly just curious, but when it arrived I was instantly addicted. I didn't do much with it, however. It sat on a shelf for a few years.

When I finally got around to doing something with it, I scraped up a small amount, and added it to a vial of 95% alcohol. I did no measuring. After a few days of occasional shaking the resin had dissolved, resulting in a dark, brown liquid. Leaving it overnight allowed residual plant material to settle out, leaving a brilliantly clear, red-brown liquid above. I carefully decanted this off with a pipette.

The resulting liquid was freaking glorious. It was spicy, and musky, and boozy, and deep, with no unpleasant notes whatsoever. I (naively?) assumed this was representative of the material.

Wanting to do more with labdanum in general, I decided to try a different one. I found another supplier, and got some (purportedly) Cretan to see if there was a difference. I immediately noticed there was a large textural, and color difference. This new stuff was black, and putty-like. It also smelled sharper - camphoraceous, and almost minty, but only slightly. Not at all out of bounds, I thought. I put it through the same steps with a couple differences. I didn't leave it on a shelf for several years, for one thing. Also, I applied gentle heat to help it break down in the alcohol more quickly. The result was a liquid that was visually very similar to my original.

This time, however, there was far more sediment. With the previous material, the sediment was flocculent, and easily disturbed. This new sediment was dense — I could invert the bottle and it stayed put. Weird. Still, I decanted off the good stuff. Thing is, it had a pronounced waxy/fatty odor. The aroma I wanted was there, but it was as if it were a scented candle version of labdanum.

Curious, I decided to break up and wash the sediment with solvents to see what it was. Upon drying, I was left with a very fine, gray powder that looked like clay. Adding a few drops of HCl produced a gentle effervescent reaction, so I assume it actually *is* some sort of mineral. I was not pleased, and assumed some sort of adulteration was the source of the waxiness.

Thinking I had it sorted, I ordered some labdanum absolute 50% from PA. Why not have some professionals do the hard work for me, right? I diluted this to 30% with EtOH, and behold; there was the same, waxy aroma from the Cretan product. It also seems to have a tarry note driving it even further from the mark. Damn.

So — before I go off on some wild goose chase ordering more and more labdanum from all over the freaking planet (starting with SoE) in an effort to recapture that original glory, I thought I'd appeal to the loads of experience here.

Could I have mishandled my materials somehow, and caused this? Could I have inadvertently done something very right with that first batch? Could both the Cretan and the abs. from PA be compromised in the same way? Is this waxy thing what I'm supposed to smell, and maybe there was something odd or exceptional about the resin from SoE? Did it benefit from sitting on the shelf for a few years?

Any and all wisdom here is welcome.

P.S. (BTW, I am in no way wedded to the idea of raw, natural materials, so if there's a way to get back to that non-waxy aroma with not only different species or suppliers, but different processing or molecules, I'm game.)
 
Last edited:

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
13,702
2,545
I think the key is to buy the right raw to begin with. If you search for labdanum posts here, you may find my posting, and the name of The Guy to buy from...
 

Cavallo

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2012
52
20
I already read through a bunch of them, but will happily do so again. If I come up empty, I'll PM if you if you don't mind.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 13, 2020
4,760
2,421
There are other extensive discussions of labdanum in the forum archive. One labdanum material that is very elegant & relatively easy to work with is "Labdanum Clear P & N", from Spain. Supposedly this is sourced by Albert Vielle, and can be purchased in hobby quantities from Perfumer's Apprentice & Eden Botanicals.

ETA: It should be added that the consensus seems to be that this is a pretty "neutral" labdanum material, and can be perceived as lacking some of the more complex character of other labdanum materials. This is presumably what makes it easier to work with, tho, and suitable for supporting roles in compositions. I used it to make Jamie F's Le Lion reconstruction & it worked great there.
 
Last edited:

Cavallo

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2012
52
20
I've read a bunch here, and also Arctander's extensive description of various solvent extractions. I saw the mention here of Eden's 'clear' being from Vieille, checked out Eden, and saw it at PA, so it's in my head as a possibility. But your descriptive comments were invaluable. If some of the lacking complexity happened to be that waxy note, I'd be interested. I could even live without the faintly green/herbal note I've come to expect. But if too much was absent, would it really be what I'm after if I want labdanum to take center seat? I suppose a sample is in order.
 
Last edited:

jfrater

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jun 2, 2005
3,237
2,363
I have Labdanum Light from Floral Concept - I presume this is a similar product to the Vielle which I have not tried. Labdanum light is golden and honey like and one of the nicest labdanum notes I have experienced. Utterly sublime. I use it in overdose in a perfume blended with labdanum absolute also from Floral Concept. FC specialises in labdanum and these are absolutely the finest specimens I've come across.

The Cretan labdanum is very much full of natural clay and dirt. I have purchased from Paul's guy in the past and new suppliers from the same area and have found them to be the same. When things are harvested by hand using medieval tools, the workload increases for the refiner :) Just be aware that your 1kg of labdanum is more likely to be 500g or thereabouts with the rest made up in Cretan dirt.
 

steventeddy

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2021
253
227
I have Labdanum Light from Floral Concept - I presume this is a similar product to the Vielle which I have not tried.
I've compared it to Eden Botanical's Labdanum "Clear" on paper at 10%. The FC product is slightly less animalic/slightly cleaner in the drydown. I haven't blended with the FC product, but I could see myself actively choosing between the two depending on the situation.
 

jfrater

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Jun 2, 2005
3,237
2,363
I've compared it to Eden Botanical's Labdanum "Clear" on paper at 10%. The FC product is slightly less animalic/slightly cleaner in the drydown. I haven't blended with the FC product, but I could see myself actively choosing between the two depending on the situation.
Thanks for the insight! I'll have to try the Eden product.
 

Cavallo

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2012
52
20
This is all incredibly helpful. Now I don't feel so cheated by my first experience of material from Crete, so thanks for that. As far as the color of the product, this doesn't concern me as much as the nose. In fact, I rather like the dark color. So long as it doesn't have an undertone like a candle on hot asphalt, I'll be happy.
 
Last edited:

Cavallo

Well-known member
Aug 21, 2012
52
20
For posterity: Labdanum Clear P&N from PA is gorgeous. I haven't even spent half an hour with it yet, but I'm quite impressed. It has a core of sweetness about it that makes me think of opoponax. I also tried Ambreine from Biolandes. It seems spicier, and less sweet. Again - just a few initial whiffs, but also very impressive.

Neither of these seems to have the port-wine booziness of the Cretan stuff, which seems a shame. Fortunately, any deal-breaking asphalt/waxiness is either absent, or at least subliminal. These both seem like excellent options to feed what appears to be a growing labdanum addiction.
 

mnitabach

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Nov 13, 2020
4,760
2,421
For posterity: Labdanum Clear P&N from PA is gorgeous. I haven't even spent half an hour with it yet, but I'm quite impressed. It has a core of sweetness about it that makes me think of opoponax. I also tried Ambreine from Biolandes. It seems spicier, and less sweet. Again - just a few initial whiffs, but also very impressive.

Neither of these seems to have the port-wine booziness of the Cretan stuff, which seems a shame. Fortunately, any deal-breaking asphalt/waxiness is either absent, or at least subliminal. These both seem like excellent options to feed what appears to be a growing labdanum addiction.
Yes, as I said above, labdanum clear P&N is a very smooth elegant neutral labdanum, lacking huge amounts of character. This is either an asset or a detriment, depending on the intended context of use.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
268,265
Messages
5,099,420
Members
206,625
Latest member
gabman69
Top