jonquil absolute

[gecko214]

I have convinced myself I need this material for a formula I am working on, I have narcissus but the description of jonquil absolute (which I have never smelled) seems better suited to what I need. One description says "The initial aroma of the oil is similar to narcissus yet as the scent evolves it has sweet tobacco undertones". It is hard to source and very expensive. A couple questions:

1) Does anyone have any experience with this material? Can you describe it as compared to narcissus? Is it useful or would you rather not have bought it (due to cost)?
2) Has anyone been able to credibly replace it using ACs? If so, which ones?
3) Anyone know good (online, retail) sources for it ? I find it at white lotus aromatics and victorie inc. Both in the US, so not ideal for me. Adam has Narcissus I believe but not Jonquil.

thanks!

 

[HermitageOils]

Hi Gecko

The first time I became aware of this was from speaking with Chris, I recall it was on his wanted list, preferring it over the Narcissus I had - so I’m guessing he will have some experience of Jonquil. When I looked into it I found the material is produced or at least offered by IFF - we have an agent/distributor here in the UK for those guys. The problem though was funds, back then I couldn't put the cash together to do the deal, the minimums killed it for me - straight kilos from memory. All I know about it is what I read in Arctanders book since then and that’s widely available now on pdf for free. My advice would be see if anyone in France is offering it first in small weights, odds on there will be someone. If not I’d favour Christopher at White Lotus over anyone else in the USA personally as he really knows his stuff. Hope you’re alright and hope no offense was caused with my Proxisante comments as I think you are a nice guy Gecko . Adam

 

[Graphite]

Not sure if this is the variety you are looking for: http://www.essence.de/de/Jonquille_absolue/c_2/a_1130

 

[gecko214]

Danke Graphite, thanks Adam,

Man it's expensive. ugh.

Adam no offense about proxisante, I really don't have a horse in the race. You are still one of my preferred suppliers.

 

[jazztweety]

Gecko,

I am using both and the Jonquil is a little crisper, greener, sharper (a bit like fresh Hyacinth odour) while Narcissus does have a warmer, more honeyed and animalic character if that helps. I get mine from Liberty Natural, since in Europe it's even more expensive. But both of the absolutes are meant to make every bookkeeper weep!

 

[Nizan]

Just from the mention of hyacinth - maybe narcissus with phenyl acetaldehyde? Though I'm really guessing here. Don't even know what the flower is called here..

 

[gecko214]

Thanks Jazztweety, it looks like Liberty natural has by far the best price, at $100 for a 1/4 oz compared to $150 at whitelotusaromatics and somewhere around $200 at Victorie inc.(who sell by ml). essence.de sells it at around $40/ml, and thus is the most expensive of the group.

Since it is apparently all made in France, it is unfortunate that I cannot source it here cheaper or at least at the same price... but that seems to be par for the course generally in this business, and on this continent. Things are just inexplicably expensive in Europe, even things made in Europe.

 

[jazztweety]

You're welcome Gecko!

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. The Jonquil is definitely from France and way cheaper from the US where it has been flown around the world and customs and taxes have been added twice. It makes no sense at all.
I had a small sample of the abs from essence.de and I think it's the same. This supplier is way out price wise anyway plus their customer service is a joke. If you need CofAs for your products, forget about it. They would not come up with it or ask for extra money for it (!!!!!) and even send you a stupid reply. That has never happended to me with any other company. So I prefer to order Overseas by far, even if there is the custom hassle involved. If you order from Liberty though, I highly recommend you to ask for USPS shipping since their default is UPS, which is really expensive too.

 

[gecko214]

Jazztweety I truly don't understand it. I used to think it was just indirectly paying for the social advantages of living in Europe, which seems to equal lower salaries, higher consumer prices and less growth in exchange for social and health security . In which case fair enough, we all benefit from that. But even this does not explain the usurious prices here.

For example, I use a company called allsciences.com to buy things I cannot get directly from suppliers like sigma aldrich (who will not sell to individuals). Nice service and I figure they will make a small profit at allsciences and everyone wins. I contacted the French division of allsciences about a product they did not list, but that was listed on the aldrich website at about 60 Euros. I gave them the SKU and asked if they would be able to sell it to me. They were very efficient and it was up on their website within an hour. But the price was over 340 Euros! I thought there was some mistake and so I called them, and their answer was "well, we have to put our margin on it". Astounding.

Thanks for the advice on shipping, although I will probably ship from Liberty to my parents in the US and they will hand-carry it for me...

 

[HermitageOils]

I’m baffled. If Liberty is the best on price then we are looking at about 60GBP for 7ml retail ( so about 85GBP per 10ml) or am I getting my workings wrong here. Looking through my lists the average price per kilo is 6000GBP per kilo plus vat - admittedly all prices are from distributors but even so I don't get how Liberty can offer it at such a price if it’s coming out of Europe. With due respect to Liberty it does not add up at all. When you find yourself saying it sounds too good to be true with natural’s prices it nearly always is.

Also German supplier of oils - I can’t comment on service and the like but I would add that the German business mentioned here offers some seriously impressive absolutes and at shy of just 400 naturals (if true) I can't help but be impressed. I'm only guessing now ok but amongst those that sell naturals in tiny volumes - so Proxisante and this Essence.de company as an example - I reckon if an official league table was created that stated who offered the most amount of naturals by number and/or botanical name within Europe - that German founded companies would dominate the league tables top tier positions.

 

[gecko214]

Well I can't say $100/7 ml sounds "too good to be true", it's still a lot of money, but I get your point nonetheless...

 

[jazztweety]

Adam, from my product documentation I know it's directly from the producer, plus out of Europe vat is not applicable. I think LN does sell huge amounts with smaller margins, the German Company for instance the other way round. I compared both of their absolutes and at least to my nose, they are identical in smell and colour/consistency etc (which doesn't surprise me since it's basically one French company that produces Narcissus and Jonquille abs).

I am not the kind of buyer who would go for to good to be true deals, since such thing does not exist. If there is a raw material that is a bit better than the other at twice the price, I will go for the more expensive one, but if I can't tell any difference and the papers of the products are from the same producer, I rather waste my €€€ on something else.

What about your Narcissus I've spotted on your site? I will certainly give it a try - do you sell larger sizes as well???


I agree that essence offers a huge variety of stuff but many of their oils you can get for WAY cheaper from other great companies like Eden Botanicals, so they are no choice if you need larger than ml amounts + a decent product documentation.

 

[HermitageOils]

If you fancy sharing who the producer is I’m all ears Jazztweety!

 

[jazztweety]

I'll pm you.

 

[PerfumerSupplyHouse]

Hello! I realize this is an older thread, but I have just added Jonquille Absolute from IFF-LMR if anyone is interested.
https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/product/jonquille-abs-pn-iff-lmr/

Cheers,
Christine