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Jasmine and Gardenia accord, some thoughts

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
2,709
626
This will be a long post. First, I want to say sorry for anyone who will get frustrated at me for posting this. If you don't like reading huge amounts of text that doesn't really have a clear purpose, then leave now and stop reading.
I am not really an expert on this, and the below might not be very useful to you, and definitely do not consider it to be very reliable. It is probably not a good basis to rely upon if you are just starting out. There are probably many errors in this and you should not rely upon it. You can take all this information as possibly useful but reserve a great level of skepticism.

I just wanted to share some thoughts on the subject of jasmine and gardenia, some rough outlines of how to make accords of the two, since the two have similarities. Some may say I should have separated them into two separate posts, but I will just combine them into one thread, so we can put an emphasis on their similarities. So this will be kind of an interesting discussion.

Much of the text in this post is going to be a disorganised "stream of consciousness", a rehash from other discussions on this forum, or quotations taken from other sites.


In 1912 the following jasmine oil constituents were known:

Benzyl acetate - 65%
Linalool - 15.5%
Linalyl acetate - 7.5%
Benzyl alcohol - 6%
Jasmone - 3%
Indole - 2.5%
Methyl anthranilate - 0.5%
Phenol compounds with narcotic odor - traces.

Benzyl acetate - hyperconcentrated jasmine fruitiness at a toxic dose. Very sharp and strong, reminding of a solvent (like a nail polish removal). It’s not unpleasant. In contrary, its sweet jasmine floral fruitiness is nice, but there is just too much of it. It’s also referred as a fresh. Indeed it is, but only in small concentrations. Undiluted it’s a beast that nature could tame within the jasmine fragrance. The perfumers have also succeed in taming of benzyl acetate, but still cannot compete with nature as they can’t use it in the concentrations as high as it’s found in natural jasmine absolute.
In perfumery benzyl acetate is one of the most common (and cheapest) aromachemical used to create a jasmine-fruity note not merely to jasmine, but also to gardenia, muguet, lily and fleur d’orange.

Linalool and linalyl acetate. Linalool possesses a fresh floral fragrance with woody undertone. It's the major constituent of the rosewood (about 80-97%) and has a similar smell. It’s impossible to define it’s floral component as it could be any flower. Linalool can be found within the composition of numerous flowers, fruits and herbs. Lilalyl acetate often follows linalool in floral and fresh fragrances. It has a similar smell with a distinctive sweet fruity note.

Benzyl alcohol. Has a faint floral fruity smell. I can also smell an almondy note there that comes as a result of oxidation. The quality can influence the smell dramatically. Can be found as a natural constituent of many flowers. Although it’s almost odourless, benzylacetate is used in perfumery as a fixative.

Indole - is a real wild beast you better never meet undiluted. In low concentrations it’s a nice dark narcotic fragrance with an leathery animal undertone. Once I was making a jasmine base. According to the formula I had to add a couple drops of indol at the end. The result was amazing as it extended the spectrum of a fragrance by giving it a perfect depth. From white innocent flower jasmine became a mature seductive temptress playing on primitive instincts.

Jasmone (cis-Jasmone). Also found in the oils of jonquil, neroli and fleur d’orange absolute. A multifaceted fragrance combining its jasmine floral character with fruity, spicy and herbal (celery seed) nuances.
The modern and common aroma-chemical Hedione has a nearly identical molecular structure to it, except for lacking two of Jasmone's carbon-carbon double bonds. This thing almost has more of a unique olfactory effect rather than a distinct smell.

Methyl anthranilate is a narcotic component of neroli, ylang, jasmine and tuberose.


old, outdated
Jasmine base No.1:

Benzyl acetate – 130 (65%)
Benzyl alcohol – 40 (20%)
Linalool – 20 (10%)
Methyl anthranilate – 10 (5%)

The biggest problem of indole is discoloration. Exposed to light it acquires reddish brown colour and is often substituted with other components. Without Indole this jasmine base has a larger application spectrum.

So far I don't have any suggestions why linalyl acetate is not used there.

The Jasmine base No.1 is not really a jasmine -- it's a jasmine giant. Smelling it is like standing in the middle of a giant jasmine flower covered with a sticky and acrid nectar. The sharpness of benzyl acetate is almost hurting the nose’s mucous membrane. The base has recognisable fruity floral character of jasmine, but recalls an urge either to dilute it or to smell it from far far away. It still can be used as a jasmine component of a complex fragrance.

I did noticed that:

Linalool increases the freshness of the base, but can’t beat the sharpness of benzyl acetate unless you take too much of linalool. But than it totally kills the jasmine character of the base.

Linalyl acetate in combination with Linalool gives an interesting fresh note reminding me of the tannic bitterness of green tea. Is also easy to overdose, because at the certain concentration it becomes an independent note that doesn’t makes a part of jasmine anymore.

cis-Jasmone – is a nice material that tames the sharpness of benzyl acetate. But not its strength. The base loses its acridness and the giant jasmine becomes smaller. Although it still remains to be a mutant jasmine, it’s not the raptorial flower anymore that stupefies you with its smell and digest your flesh with its acrid nectar.

Indole – it was interesting to notice, that small quantities of indole couldn’t really compete with benzyl acetate. And it was easy to overdose. Although this aromachemical gave some idolic properties to the base, it couldn’t really blend with the rest into give a dark narcotic note of jasmine.

still wasn't a real jasmine flower, but rather a decaying mutant flower as big as my hand.
The notes of linalool with linalyl acetate as well as indole were not completely blended into the jasmine smell.


Gardenia type
Patent 3,953,534 Cycloaliphatic compounds as odour- and taste-modifying agents
For Fragrance Use
30.00 phenyl acetaldehyde 10%
50.00 benzyl acetate
250.00 jasmin 10
60.00 ylang ylang oil replacer
90.00 linalyl acetate
30.00 methyl anthranilate
30.00 oranger crystals
100.00 phenethyl alcohol
80.00 hydroxycitronellal
70.00 cinnamic alcohol
30.00 heliotropin
70.00 benzyl salicylate
10.00 methyl salicylate
30.00 musk ketone
70.00 DIPG
1000.00 Total



Gardenia is kind of just basically like jasmine sambac, except with the following added: Gardenol, a creamy-mushroomy tiglate note, and then a very volatile farnesene and ocimene top note.
Citronella or citronellyl acetate is also sometimes used in gardenia accords, adding a somewhat more "lemony" feel direction to the floral smell.


Gardenia has highly fragrant white flowers. In the evening, the opening buds smells slightly green and piquant -- the salicylate aspect. The flowers also smell creamy or lactonic, recalling coconut and peach skin. There is an unmistakably heady indolic element of jasmine. In ripe blooms, they have a sharp green or ‘mushroom’ overtones, almost acerbic. Additionally, gardenias share their floral aspects with lily, lily of the valley, ylang ylang, and a bit of rose.

Creating an accurate imitation of gardenia has remained elusive, but I believe that may simply be due to a lack of understanding of the full profile of chemical constituents that give gardenia its characteristic fragrance.

According to one study, the main compounds in headspace of fresh Gardenia flower included farnesene (64.86%), cis-ocimene (29.33%), linalool (2.74%), cis-3-hexenyl tiglate (1.34%), methyl benzoate (0.25%).

Also cis-3-hexanol (2.5% in EO, 0.76% in fresh flowers), methyl tiglate (4.6% in fresh flowers), indole (0.29% in fresh flowers), phenethyl alcohol (2.4% in absolute), borneol (0.94% in absolute). Hotrienol (dehyrdolinalool, apparently smells tropical, 1.33% in EO), nerol (0.75% in EO), isoeugenol (1.28% absolute, 0.31% fresh flower), hexyl tiglate (3.94% fresh flower), alpha-terpineol (3.05% EO).
(source: Volatile Constituents and Biological Activities of Gardenia Jasminoides, Jarubol Chaichana, Chiang Mai University, Journal Health Res 2009, 23(3):141-145 )

A headspace analysis of the endangered Hawaiian species Gardenia brighamii showed that its gas-phase components contains 41% methyl benzoate, 13% (3Z)-hex-3-enyl benzoate, 7% indole that recalls 'white-flower smell', 7% jasmine lactone that lends the jasminic and coconut touch, and 3.7% (3Z)-hex-3-enyl tiglate that gives the tang of soil fungi and mushrooms to the flower.

Lets take a look at some of these chemical constituents.

Styrallyl Acetate (Gardenol, alpha-Methylbenzyl acetate)
alpha-Methylbenzyl acetate is only found in nature in gardenia flowers and, indeed, the fragrance of this chemical bears more than a passing resemblance to gardenia.
Common synonyms include 1-Phenyl ethyl acetate, styrallyl acetate, gardenol, and methylphenylcarbinyl acetate. It can be synthesized from acetophenone, by reduction to the corresponding alcohol and then formation of the ester. (Acetophenone, by the way, is reputed to smell wonderful, described as something like orange blossom with a bit of artificial cherry/almond)

Odour type is green with a medium odour strength, recommended smelling in a 10% solution or less. Described as green, leafy, gardenia, rhubarb and musty.
Not obviously floral on first sniff, this is an essential ingredient in Gardenia accords and a great modifier in many floral compositions. Widely used but never in very high proportions.
Styrallyl acetate has a dry, intense, green, floral odour reminiscent of gardenia. It is a key ingredient in gardenia, tuberose and other flowery perfumery compositions. Styrallyl acetate is also used in many other blossom compositions, in particular to add dry top notes.

Although Arctander says "it is conventionally classified as a Gardenia-green material, but its odor is typical only of certain stages of maturity of the Gardenia flower, and only of certain species. However, the ester finds use in numerous fragrance types, mostly those including fruity and green notes". I believe that while gardenol (Styrallyl Acetate) has a very characteristic odor of gardenia fragrance, it's also a very minor component of gardenia fragrance. Supposedly, in too high of a concentration it can smell harsh and unpleasant.

This is my evaluation of alpha-methylbenzyl acetate:
The first impression, it smells like burnt plastic, chemical-like, somewhat like nailpolish remover, with a little tire rubber. Trying to smell more carefully, it smells a bit ethereal like lilac, there’s an aspect to the smell that’s very distantly like grapefruit but not the same, the nailpolish aspect smells very perfume-like, possibly floral, kind of sweet. It’s very potent, like overconcentrated jasmine. There’s something a little bit similar to honeysuckle. It does smell a little like part of the gardenia fragrance, not in an unnatural way. I think I'm going to have to agree with Actander when he says "its odor is typical only of certain stages of maturity of the Gardenia flower". It kind of smells like it might be one of the smaller fragrance notes within the overall fragrance of gardenia. By itself, it's only distantly reminiscent of gardenia, but there's something unique to it that's very specific to gardenia.
Not sure that I can recommend this for perfume. If it is used, it's probably going to be in extremely small concentration, only to accentuate other notes. With the way this smells, I'm not even sure it's an essential to synthetic gardenia fragrance.

After 2 hours after the sample was allowed to evaporate on the test strip. The burnt plastic/rubber smell still does not fully go away even after diffusion, but the floral element does shine through a little bit more. What the nail polish odor really reminds me of is model airplane glue. It smells sweet, floral, and sharp very much like artificial plum fragrance. The smell has a "green" aspect but it's a harsh green smell. It's "sharp" in the same sort of way vinegar has a sharp smell. The same "burnt plastic" aspect turns itself into part of the deep cloying (almost musky but different) element of gardenia. The floral aspect of the smell is in a strange twilight zone halfway between rose oxide and orange flower ether (or grapefruit). When I said it smelled kind of like honeysuckle, I mean the small sharp cloying character note in honeysuckle fragrance. To summarize, I am not sure this is really the part of gardenia I want to smell.

This is one more thing I will quickly mention, one more connection that I noticed. The rinds of pomelo (a type of citrus fruit) that have been left out in the open for few days, seem reminiscent to the smell of styrallyl acetate. This smell isn't how the rinds smell fresh, but once you leave them around a little while the smell somehow seems to "shift" towards this direction. (It's not really a good smell but it's not a bad one either)
I don't really know but might guess the fragrance similarity probably has something to do with the fact that alpha-terpinyl acetate is part of the fragrance profile of pomelo and has a molecular structure similar to styrallyl acetate, except with just one more methyl group.

Apparently styrallyl acetate, at lower levels, is where much of the green character, as well as mouth-puckering rhubarb-like aspects of the gardenia fragrance comes from.


It appears that the particular constituent of gardenia is beta-cis-Ocimene, but here is some fragrance information I was able to find about some other ocimenes, perhaps this will help us garner a fuller understanding of the type of scent qualities in this family:

alpha-Ocimene has a medium strength, fruity, floral aroma with a wet cloth note. It is contributor to green odor of unripe mango and of mango ginger (Curcuma amada). It is used in oriental pickles.

beta-Ocimene has a medium strength, tropical, green, terpy and woody odor with vegetable nuances. It is used as a flavoring agent where it has a green, tropical, woody flavor with floral and vegetable nuances. It is a flavor and fragrance additive as well as a common component in many essential oils.

beta-cis-Ocimene has a medium strength, warm, floral, herbal, sweet, citrus-like aroma. It is a component of the chemical communication system of the tea weevil and cotton bollworm.

trans-beta-Ocimene, synonym (E)-ocimene, was found to be the major chemical component in the headspace of Lilac, although not the most characteristic component.
(the fragrance of Lilac also contains small quantities of indole, like gardenia)

The fragrance of Lily also contain cis-ocimene, linalool, and methyl benzoate, which explains the fragrance resemblance to gardenia.

If Lily of the Valley bears some resemblance to gardenia, perhaps part of th reason is because it contains farnesol, which is chemically similar to farnesene but with a hydroxyl group, basically the corresponding alcohol to this terpene.

Early reconstitutions of gardenia often revolve around a tuberose note and aldehyde C-18 and may eschew styrallyl acetate altogether. Still, most gardenia bases almost always call for it. Such bases rely on its powerful rhubarb-like green note in combination with jasmine, rose, lily of the valley, lilac, and a small amount of orange blossom to render gardenia odour characteristics. But styrallyl acetate is rather harsh, so salicylates may be used to soften it along with aldehyde C-14 and C-18 as modifiers. The top note of such bases may call for aldehyde C-8 to C-12 and citrus oils such as lemon, mandarin, orange, or bergamot. To fix the components, heliotropin, coumarin, musk, labdanum, myrrh, tolu balsam, cinnamic alcohol, and synthetic ambergris may be used. Other aroma chemicals such as the mildly floral 'gardenia oxide' (isoamyl benzyl ether) and the citrusy fruity linalyl isovalearate are sometimes incorporated into gardenia compounds. Meanwhile, perfumer Jean-Claude Ellena, who professes his love of simplicity, draws a more-or-less complete gardenia note with just three ingredients: the fruity sweetness and coconut of aldehyde C-18 (gamma-nonalactone), the fresh green of styrallyl acetate (Gardenol), and the Concord-grape sweetness of methyl anthranilate.

hint of decatone (gardenia decalone)
Decatone seems like an excellent material to add to a gardenia accord, in trace amounts; it is very potent in small amounts. After smelling this, I don't think it's a coincidence that it has an alternate name "Gardenia decalone". It can add what I perceive as the "grapefruit" note that I can smell in natural gardenia flowers. Decatone is very natural smelling. By itself it smells like 60% grapefruit and 40% rhubarb. But at the same time it is not too obnoxiously rhubarb, and almost has a bergamot tea feel, especially at low concentration levels.

Petal pyranone (Jasmolactone) - good for jasmine or gardenia, gives a feel of jasmine oil, a white opaque creaminess since it is a lactone.
In fact I think it should be mentioned that some sort of lactone like this one is almost essential for either jasmine or gardenia.

I think Floral pyranol (Florol) might be kind of useful for both, although more for gardenia than jasmine, having a smooth feel sort of reminiscent of lily of the valley and clean magnolia, and also a slightly linalool-like effect.


If any of you have things to share, thoughts about jasmine and gardenia, and how they connect, you are welcome to add to these rambling thoughts.

I certainly don't expect this post to come anywhere close to a definitive cover-all of jasmine and gardenia notes, but it is just a few select thoughts.
 

Quay Limey

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2020
883
476
I wanted to ignore this because I think others probably have the same intention, and because that’s what it deserves.

But, I have a few thoughts, though not on gardenia or jasmine. And I suppose, as you brought it up in the first few paragraphs, it won’t be going off topic either.

A series of questions to you:

Why do you think your post will frustrate people?

Why post huge amounts of text if it “doesn’t really have a clear purpose”?

If you are “not really an expert on this, and the below might not be very useful to you, and definitely do not consider it to be very reliable” then what is the purpose of even starting this thread?

If it is “probably not a good basis to rely upon if you are just starting out” then to whom is this post supposed to be aimed? It stands to reason that if not aimed at beginners then it must be for more experienced users and readers of the forum. That suggests you are writing this nonsense in order to provoke a reaction from more experienced users, knowing as you do, that it will “frustrate” people. I think that could be considered trolling - a breach of the rules of this forum.

It’s strange but not surprising that recently you have to start your posts with a proviso that it might not be accurate or you don’t have the expertise etc. A far cry from your usual overconfident “I work in the industry” type of risible drivel you’ve written for years in this section of the forum.

So, why bother, Parker? Is it an ego thing or are you just not really getting that your posts are, on a regular basis, damaging rather than helpful?
 
Last edited:

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
2,709
626
"KNOWN COMPONENTS OF GARDENIA ABSOLUTE
Linalool, Methyl anthranilate, Benzyl acetate, Tiglic acid, Acetic acid, Linalyl acetate, Terpineol, Styrallyl acetate, a Lactone(Cl0H1602), Benzoic acid

Gardenia Jasminoides, one of its varieties, G. Jasminoides Ellis var. Hara, known as Ooyae-kuchinashi in Japanese, is particularly cherished as an ornamental plant. Its large white flower blooms in midsummer with sweet-green odor which resembles jasmin more than other varieties. ...
Among them, the characteristic constituents responsible for the sweet-green odor of this flower were jasmin lactone, cis-3-hexenol, esters of cis-3-hexenol, cis-3- hexenoic acid and tiglic acid.
The major components were trans-ocimene (1.4 %), cis-3-hexenol (1 %), linalool (12 %), methyl benzoate (1 %), hexyl tiglate (1 %), cis-3-hexenyl tiglate (10 %), alpha-farnesene (18 %), cis-3-hexenyl benzoate (5 %), jasmin lactone (8 %), ethyl 5-hydroxy-cis-7-decenoate (3 %), palmitic acid (7.2 %) "

Chemical Composition of the Absolute from Gardenia Flower, Renzo Hattori, Shigeru Muraki, Toshio Yoshida, Agric. BioI. Chern., 42 (7), 1351-1356, year 1978 , Takasago Perfumery Company

benzyl acetate - (1) Powerful but thin, sweet floral fresh, fresh and light, fruity odor reminiscent of Jasmin, Gardenia, Muguet, Lily and other flowers.
(2) benzyl acetate is also found naturally in many flowers, including ylang-ylang, gardenia, hyacinth and jasmine. It has fruity undertones (peachy, pear-y, banana-y, apple-y), but complements white flowers wonderfully. (3) Very powerful, significantly fruity banana, with floral notes of jasmin. It is a constituent of Jasmin and of the essential oils of ylang-ylang and neroli. Very powerful, significantly fruity banana, with floral notes of jasmin. Sharp and pungent. (4) naturally found in jasmine and ylang ylang, widely used in perfumery when building jasmine and gardenia accords. usage rate: up to 30% of a perfume. It is almost inevitably the largest component in jasmine and gardenia fragrances.

nerolidol - Nerolidol is a terpene that can be found in jasmine, lemongrass, ginger, tea tree, lavender, and neroli. It has a strong, woodsy scent, but can also be described as citrusy.

octyl acetate - Earthy, fruity-apple and pear, green, mushroom, herbaceous, waxy. An unusual fruity-floral-earthy ingredient ... primarily earthy and green apple-like, though its main use is in perfumes of the jasmine family. Arctander: "This ester finds some use, although always at very low concentration, in perfume compositions, e.g. Jasmin, Gardenia, Orange- blossom, Citrus, Orris". It has fruit aroma and Ester aroma, like orange flower and Jasmine Flower. Fatty-waxy, slightly fruity, floral and herbaceous with a discreet green apple note.
 

Agonhoun

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
298
77
I liked the theme, I was just now working on ordering a gardenia fragrance. I don’t understand why the Q.Limey was so upset and why there is too much criticism. Large text is not a problem if it contains interesting information. Everything in this text is to the point. Thanks a lot , parker25mv!
My observations. I was looking for the perfect lactonic note for gardenia because I don't really like the smell of C-18. Methyl Lauton turned out to be too cosmetic for this purpose. Also I don’t like benzyl acetate and i dont used. .. I don’t like its smell. I liked indolene, it is more elegant for gardenia than just indole. The orange crystal gave the fragrance a gentle honeyedness and diffusion. A little bit absolu’ of honeysuckle was nice
 

Quay Limey

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2020
883
476
the Q.Limey
I like that. Kinda like a superhero!

But I wasn’t upset when I typed the post. I was, if you read it properly, quoting what he had written and asking him to explain the reasoning. As usual, he didn’t respond. As for it being “wrong” as you seem to be implying, some of the most respected members of the DIY forum seem to appreciate my post on the matter. That should indicate how a lot of people feel about his usual nonsense.

Do yourself a favour and don’t fall for Parker’s usual ruse. There is very little knowledge behind the words and if it is correct, it’s usually because he has copied the works of someone else.

Hope this clears up your concerns.
 

Agonhoun

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
298
77
I like that. Kinda like a superhero
I dont have the illusions about the author's dissertation about gardenia)) Even if some notices copied and posted here, what's the problem? Everyone has a head on their shoulders to appreciate the value of the contribution. Dont you think that for someone it could be useful?
Well, the fact that someone liked your message for me is nothing mean, i can do mine conclusion myself about. If you don't like someone's post, why not just skip it?
I don't understand your aggression, sorry. You could write him a personal message with tips on how to post, but you preferred to arrange a public flogging and humiliation. Superhero?
 

Quay Limey

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2020
883
476
I dont have the illusions about the author's dissertation about gardenia)) Even if some notices copied and posted here, what's the problem? Everyone has a head on their shoulders to appreciate the value of the contribution. Dont you think that for someone it could be useful?
Well, the fact that someone liked your message for me is nothing mean, i can do mine conclusion myself about. If you don't like someone's post, why not just skip it?
I don't understand your aggression, sorry. You could write him a personal message with tips on how to post, but you preferred to arrange a public flogging and humiliation. Superhero?
Okay, you clearly have a skewed opinion of what’s actually happening on this thread, so let me fill in a few gaps for you as you’re making a number of assumptions. But to be clear, I’m not looking for a fight and I’m tired of getting sucked into stuff and being accused of “bickering” when in reality I'm just attempting to defend myself against an accusation.

Any aggression in my post is purely inferred by you; it was never written in that way. Parker is a fraud and it needed pointing out. If you actually spend enough time going through the forum you will find many other BN members writing almost exactly the same thing regarding Parker’s input in this section. I won’t take it personally that you have decided to target just my part in that “public flogging”, I’ll just put it down to your lack of info. If there is another agenda then perhaps you’d like to share it privately; I’m open to discussion at anytime. Parker, however, is not, and I have attempted to discuss his posts in private mail. He responded rather predictably and blamed me for being too sensitive and “wrong”, claimed he would get back to me but failed to do so.

You should also know that a few people were banned as a result of engaging Parker and it was becoming unacceptable that he should remain while more useful posts were being shut down because they were tired of the continual BS - a change of tack was required to circumvent the supposed breach of the rules. My post doesn't do that nor does it wander off-topic.

But, if you like Parker’s stuff, good for you. Fill your boots with his particular style of misinformation nicely wrapped up in a veneer of expertise. As you become more experienced as a perfumer you’ll discover that most of what he writes is nonsense.

The superhero quip was based on the way in which you preceded my moniker with the word “the”, but again, you feel free to interpret that in any way you wish. You clearly have the arse with me and frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.

If you don't like my posts, follow your own advice and move along; no one is forcing you to read it. You also have the option of an ignore function. Can I suggest you use it if my posts are offensive to you.

Edit :
Even if some notices copied and posted here, what's the problem?
He palms them off as his own works or discoveries.
 

Citroasis

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2021
533
359
To keep the thread moving along, heres a decent Gardenia Base i stumbled across froma Firmencih patent from 1980's

Hydroxycitronellal - 154
Bergamot Oil - 144
Ionone Alpha - 103
Amyl Cinnamaldehyde - 87
Heliotropin (piperonal) - 82
Styrallyl acetate - 82
Ylang Extra EO - 82
Benzyl Acetate - 82
Phenethyl Alcohol (Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol) - 82
Linalool - 82
Delta Nonalactone - 2
Jasmin Specialty Base (184165 Firmenich) - 15
Aldehyde C-14 Peach - 1

I made this about a month ago, and it works well. I feel its missing a touch of that mushroomy aspect, but this base was used in a Chanel formula fragrance in the 80's and a good starting point for a generalized Gardenia Base.
 

Quay Limey

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2020
883
476
Nice one, Citroasis.

I dislike gardenia so have nothing positive to add here. I'll leave the thread.
 

pkiler

Basenotes Plus
Basenotes Plus
Dec 5, 2007
13,712
2,550
You could write him a personal message with tips on how to post, but you preferred to arrange a public flogging and humiliation. Superhero?
There is no personal messaging to Parker that changes any of his behavior.
There is no private coaching that Parker will take to heart and mind, and improve.
It's all been done, ad nauseam, by many members here.
Public pleading of Parker results in nothing.
Parker is here to make himself seem important, and that he has good advice and information.
Parker speaks passionately about many many materials, without actually smelling them, or having any personal experience using them.
Parker is an expert in his own mind.

His case is classical NPD, described by the Mayo Clinic as:
"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism."

What does work is public shaming, because moderators can't bring themselves to get rid of his absolute nonsense.

I am calling for Parker's permanent removal. Which should have been done five years ago. Let him sow his nonsense elsewhere.
 

Agonhoun

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
298
77
The superhero quip was based on the way in which you preceded my moniker with the word “the”, but again, you feel free to interpret that in any way you wish. You clearly have the arse with me and frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.
English isn't my native language, I didn't even understand what you mean by denoting the article now "the". If this is some kind of slang and I unconsciously offended you, believe me, this was not at all part of my plans. Also, I'm not a fan of anyone and have never noticed a single conflict with parker25mv ( but i am not often here). I have no desire to delve into all the messages related to this person, but in this thread I dont see that he entered into an aggressive dialogue at all. This is just a side view.

When you write to me :
you clearly have the arse with me and frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn"
I'm at a loss. This style of communication is incomprehensible to me, especially for a moderator, sorry :rolleyes:
 

Agonhoun

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
298
77
His case is classical NPD, described by the Mayo Clinic as:
"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism."

What does work is public shaming, because moderators can't bring themselves to get rid of his absolute nonsense.
Unfortunately, this can be said about many people.
If he is objectionable to you, the moderators, and does not comply with the rules of the forum, why dont dismiss him, pointing out the errors? but not in public . Otherwise, there is an opinion that people who have of power sometimes cannot slow down.
 

enfantarribla

Member
Jul 7, 2022
20
5
This will be a long post. First, I want to say sorry for anyone who will get frustrated at me for posting this. If you don't like reading huge amounts of text that doesn't really have a clear purpose, then leave now and stop reading.
I am not really an expert on this, and the below might not be very useful to you, and definitely do not consider it to be very reliable. It is probably not a good basis to rely upon if you are just starting out. There are probably many errors in this and you should not rely upon it. You can take all this information as possibly useful but reserve a great level of skepticism.

I just wanted to share some thoughts on the subject of jasmine and gardenia, some rough outlines of how to make accords of the two, since the two have similarities. Some may say I should have separated them into two separate posts, but I will just combine them into one thread, so we can put an emphasis on their similarities. So this will be kind of an interesting discussion.

Much of the text in this post is going to be a disorganised "stream of consciousness", a rehash from other discussions on this forum, or quotations taken from other sites.


In 1912 the following jasmine oil constituents were known:

Benzyl acetate - 65%
Linalool - 15.5%
Linalyl acetate - 7.5%
Benzyl alcohol - 6%
Jasmone - 3%
Indole - 2.5%
Methyl anthranilate - 0.5%
Phenol compounds with narcotic odor - traces.

Benzyl acetate - hyperconcentrated jasmine fruitiness at a toxic dose. Very sharp and strong, reminding of a solvent (like a nail polish removal). It’s not unpleasant. In contrary, its sweet jasmine floral fruitiness is nice, but there is just too much of it. It’s also referred as a fresh. Indeed it is, but only in small concentrations. Undiluted it’s a beast that nature could tame within the jasmine fragrance. The perfumers have also succeed in taming of benzyl acetate, but still cannot compete with nature as they can’t use it in the concentrations as high as it’s found in natural jasmine absolute.
In perfumery benzyl acetate is one of the most common (and cheapest) aromachemical used to create a jasmine-fruity note not merely to jasmine, but also to gardenia, muguet, lily and fleur d’orange.

Linalool and linalyl acetate. Linalool possesses a fresh floral fragrance with woody undertone. It's the major constituent of the rosewood (about 80-97%) and has a similar smell. It’s impossible to define it’s floral component as it could be any flower. Linalool can be found within the composition of numerous flowers, fruits and herbs. Lilalyl acetate often follows linalool in floral and fresh fragrances. It has a similar smell with a distinctive sweet fruity note.

Benzyl alcohol. Has a faint floral fruity smell. I can also smell an almondy note there that comes as a result of oxidation. The quality can influence the smell dramatically. Can be found as a natural constituent of many flowers. Although it’s almost odourless, benzylacetate is used in perfumery as a fixative.

Indole - is a real wild beast you better never meet undiluted. In low concentrations it’s a nice dark narcotic fragrance with an leathery animal undertone. Once I was making a jasmine base. According to the formula I had to add a couple drops of indol at the end. The result was amazing as it extended the spectrum of a fragrance by giving it a perfect depth. From white innocent flower jasmine became a mature seductive temptress playing on primitive instincts.

Jasmone (cis-Jasmone). Also found in the oils of jonquil, neroli and fleur d’orange absolute. A multifaceted fragrance combining its jasmine floral character with fruity, spicy and herbal (celery seed) nuances.
The modern and common aroma-chemical Hedione has a nearly identical molecular structure to it, except for lacking two of Jasmone's carbon-carbon double bonds. This thing almost has more of a unique olfactory effect rather than a distinct smell.

Methyl anthranilate is a narcotic component of neroli, ylang, jasmine and tuberose.


old, outdated
Jasmine base No.1:

Benzyl acetate – 130 (65%)
Benzyl alcohol – 40 (20%)
Linalool – 20 (10%)
Methyl anthranilate – 10 (5%)

The biggest problem of indole is discoloration. Exposed to light it acquires reddish brown colour and is often substituted with other components. Without Indole this jasmine base has a larger application spectrum.

So far I don't have any suggestions why linalyl acetate is not used there.

The Jasmine base No.1 is not really a jasmine -- it's a jasmine giant. Smelling it is like standing in the middle of a giant jasmine flower covered with a sticky and acrid nectar. The sharpness of benzyl acetate is almost hurting the nose’s mucous membrane. The base has recognisable fruity floral character of jasmine, but recalls an urge either to dilute it or to smell it from far far away. It still can be used as a jasmine component of a complex fragrance.

I did noticed that:

Linalool increases the freshness of the base, but can’t beat the sharpness of benzyl acetate unless you take too much of linalool. But than it totally kills the jasmine character of the base.

Linalyl acetate in combination with Linalool gives an interesting fresh note reminding me of the tannic bitterness of green tea. Is also easy to overdose, because at the certain concentration it becomes an independent note that doesn’t makes a part of jasmine anymore.

cis-Jasmone – is a nice material that tames the sharpness of benzyl acetate. But not its strength. The base loses its acridness and the giant jasmine becomes smaller. Although it still remains to be a mutant jasmine, it’s not the raptorial flower anymore that stupefies you with its smell and digest your flesh with its acrid nectar.

Indole – it was interesting to notice, that small quantities of indole couldn’t really compete with benzyl acetate. And it was easy to overdose. Although this aromachemical gave some idolic properties to the base, it couldn’t really blend with the rest into give a dark narcotic note of jasmine.

still wasn't a real jasmine flower, but rather a decaying mutant flower as big as my hand.
The notes of linalool with linalyl acetate as well as indole were not completely blended into the jasmine smell.


Gardenia type
Patent 3,953,534 Cycloaliphatic compounds as odour- and taste-modifying agents
For Fragrance Use
30.00 phenyl acetaldehyde 10%
50.00 benzyl acetate
250.00 jasmin 10
60.00 ylang ylang oil replacer
90.00 linalyl acetate
30.00 methyl anthranilate
30.00 oranger crystals
100.00 phenethyl alcohol
80.00 hydroxycitronellal
70.00 cinnamic alcohol
30.00 heliotropin
70.00 benzyl salicylate
10.00 methyl salicylate
30.00 musk ketone
70.00 DIPG
1000.00 Total



Gardenia is kind of just basically like jasmine sambac, except with the following added: Gardenol, a creamy-mushroomy tiglate note, and then a very volatile farnesene and ocimene top note.
Citronella or citronellyl acetate is also sometimes used in gardenia accords, adding a somewhat more "lemony" feel direction to the floral smell.


Gardenia has highly fragrant white flowers. In the evening, the opening buds smells slightly green and piquant -- the salicylate aspect. The flowers also smell creamy or lactonic, recalling coconut and peach skin. There is an unmistakably heady indolic element of jasmine. In ripe blooms, they have a sharp green or ‘mushroom’ overtones, almost acerbic. Additionally, gardenias share their floral aspects with lily, lily of the valley, ylang ylang, and a bit of rose.

Creating an accurate imitation of gardenia has remained elusive, but I believe that may simply be due to a lack of understanding of the full profile of chemical constituents that give gardenia its characteristic fragrance.

According to one study, the main compounds in headspace of fresh Gardenia flower included farnesene (64.86%), cis-ocimene (29.33%), linalool (2.74%), cis-3-hexenyl tiglate (1.34%), methyl benzoate (0.25%).

Also cis-3-hexanol (2.5% in EO, 0.76% in fresh flowers), methyl tiglate (4.6% in fresh flowers), indole (0.29% in fresh flowers), phenethyl alcohol (2.4% in absolute), borneol (0.94% in absolute). Hotrienol (dehyrdolinalool, apparently smells tropical, 1.33% in EO), nerol (0.75% in EO), isoeugenol (1.28% absolute, 0.31% fresh flower), hexyl tiglate (3.94% fresh flower), alpha-terpineol (3.05% EO).
(source: Volatile Constituents and Biological Activities of Gardenia Jasminoides, Jarubol Chaichana, Chiang Mai University, Journal Health Res 2009, 23(3):141-145 )

A headspace analysis of the endangered Hawaiian species Gardenia brighamii showed that its gas-phase components contains 41% methyl benzoate, 13% (3Z)-hex-3-enyl benzoate, 7% indole that recalls 'white-flower smell', 7% jasmine lactone that lends the jasminic and coconut touch, and 3.7% (3Z)-hex-3-enyl tiglate that gives the tang of soil fungi and mushrooms to the flower.

Lets take a look at some of these chemical constituents.

Styrallyl Acetate (Gardenol, alpha-Methylbenzyl acetate)
alpha-Methylbenzyl acetate is only found in nature in gardenia flowers and, indeed, the fragrance of this chemical bears more than a passing resemblance to gardenia.
Common synonyms include 1-Phenyl ethyl acetate, styrallyl acetate, gardenol, and methylphenylcarbinyl acetate. It can be synthesized from acetophenone, by reduction to the corresponding alcohol and then formation of the ester. (Acetophenone, by the way, is reputed to smell wonderful, described as something like orange blossom with a bit of artificial cherry/almond)

Odour type is green with a medium odour strength, recommended smelling in a 10% solution or less. Described as green, leafy, gardenia, rhubarb and musty.
Not obviously floral on first sniff, this is an essential ingredient in Gardenia accords and a great modifier in many floral compositions. Widely used but never in very high proportions.
Styrallyl acetate has a dry, intense, green, floral odour reminiscent of gardenia. It is a key ingredient in gardenia, tuberose and other flowery perfumery compositions. Styrallyl acetate is also used in many other blossom compositions, in particular to add dry top notes.

Although Arctander says "it is conventionally classified as a Gardenia-green material, but its odor is typical only of certain stages of maturity of the Gardenia flower, and only of certain species. However, the ester finds use in numerous fragrance types, mostly those including fruity and green notes". I believe that while gardenol (Styrallyl Acetate) has a very characteristic odor of gardenia fragrance, it's also a very minor component of gardenia fragrance. Supposedly, in too high of a concentration it can smell harsh and unpleasant.

This is my evaluation of alpha-methylbenzyl acetate:
The first impression, it smells like burnt plastic, chemical-like, somewhat like nailpolish remover, with a little tire rubber. Trying to smell more carefully, it smells a bit ethereal like lilac, there’s an aspect to the smell that’s very distantly like grapefruit but not the same, the nailpolish aspect smells very perfume-like, possibly floral, kind of sweet. It’s very potent, like overconcentrated jasmine. There’s something a little bit similar to honeysuckle. It does smell a little like part of the gardenia fragrance, not in an unnatural way. I think I'm going to have to agree with Actander when he says "its odor is typical only of certain stages of maturity of the Gardenia flower". It kind of smells like it might be one of the smaller fragrance notes within the overall fragrance of gardenia. By itself, it's only distantly reminiscent of gardenia, but there's something unique to it that's very specific to gardenia.
Not sure that I can recommend this for perfume. If it is used, it's probably going to be in extremely small concentration, only to accentuate other notes. With the way this smells, I'm not even sure it's an essential to synthetic gardenia fragrance.

After 2 hours after the sample was allowed to evaporate on the test strip. The burnt plastic/rubber smell still does not fully go away even after diffusion, but the floral element does shine through a little bit more. What the nail polish odor really reminds me of is model airplane glue. It smells sweet, floral, and sharp very much like artificial plum fragrance. The smell has a "green" aspect but it's a harsh green smell. It's "sharp" in the same sort of way vinegar has a sharp smell. The same "burnt plastic" aspect turns itself into part of the deep cloying (almost musky but different) element of gardenia. The floral aspect of the smell is in a strange twilight zone halfway between rose oxide and orange flower ether (or grapefruit). When I said it smelled kind of like honeysuckle, I mean the small sharp cloying character note in honeysuckle fragrance. To summarize, I am not sure this is really the part of gardenia I want to smell.

This is one more thing I will quickly mention, one more connection that I noticed. The rinds of pomelo (a type of citrus fruit) that have been left out in the open for few days, seem reminiscent to the smell of styrallyl acetate. This smell isn't how the rinds smell fresh, but once you leave them around a little while the smell somehow seems to "shift" towards this direction. (It's not really a good smell but it's not a bad one either)
I don't really know but might guess the fragrance similarity probably has something to do with the fact that alpha-terpinyl acetate is part of the fragrance profile of pomelo and has a molecular structure similar to styrallyl acetate, except with just one more methyl group.

Apparently styrallyl acetate, at lower levels, is where much of the green character, as well as mouth-puckering rhubarb-like aspects of the gardenia fragrance comes from.


It appears that the particular constituent of gardenia is beta-cis-Ocimene, but here is some fragrance information I was able to find about some other ocimenes, perhaps this will help us garner a fuller understanding of the type of scent qualities in this family:

alpha-Ocimene has a medium strength, fruity, floral aroma with a wet cloth note. It is contributor to green odor of unripe mango and of mango ginger (Curcuma amada). It is used in oriental pickles.

beta-Ocimene has a medium strength, tropical, green, terpy and woody odor with vegetable nuances. It is used as a flavoring agent where it has a green, tropical, woody flavor with floral and vegetable nuances. It is a flavor and fragrance additive as well as a common component in many essential oils.

beta-cis-Ocimene has a medium strength, warm, floral, herbal, sweet, citrus-like aroma. It is a component of the chemical communication system of the tea weevil and cotton bollworm.

trans-beta-Ocimene, synonym (E)-ocimene, was found to be the major chemical component in the headspace of Lilac, although not the most characteristic component.
(the fragrance of Lilac also contains small quantities of indole, like gardenia)

The fragrance of Lily also contain cis-ocimene, linalool, and methyl benzoate, which explains the fragrance resemblance to gardenia.

If Lily of the Valley bears some resemblance to gardenia, perhaps part of th reason is because it contains farnesol, which is chemically similar to farnesene but with a hydroxyl group, basically the corresponding alcohol to this terpene.

Early reconstitutions of gardenia often revolve around a tuberose note and aldehyde C-18 and may eschew styrallyl acetate altogether. Still, most gardenia bases almost always call for it. Such bases rely on its powerful rhubarb-like green note in combination with jasmine, rose, lily of the valley, lilac, and a small amount of orange blossom to render gardenia odour characteristics. But styrallyl acetate is rather harsh, so salicylates may be used to soften it along with aldehyde C-14 and C-18 as modifiers. The top note of such bases may call for aldehyde C-8 to C-12 and citrus oils such as lemon, mandarin, orange, or bergamot. To fix the components, heliotropin, coumarin, musk, labdanum, myrrh, tolu balsam, cinnamic alcohol, and synthetic ambergris may be used. Other aroma chemicals such as the mildly floral 'gardenia oxide' (isoamyl benzyl ether) and the citrusy fruity linalyl isovalearate are sometimes incorporated into gardenia compounds. Meanwhile, perfumer Jean-Claude Ellena, who professes his love of simplicity, draws a more-or-less complete gardenia note with just three ingredients: the fruity sweetness and coconut of aldehyde C-18 (gamma-nonalactone), the fresh green of styrallyl acetate (Gardenol), and the Concord-grape sweetness of methyl anthranilate.

hint of decatone (gardenia decalone)
Decatone seems like an excellent material to add to a gardenia accord, in trace amounts; it is very potent in small amounts. After smelling this, I don't think it's a coincidence that it has an alternate name "Gardenia decalone". It can add what I perceive as the "grapefruit" note that I can smell in natural gardenia flowers. Decatone is very natural smelling. By itself it smells like 60% grapefruit and 40% rhubarb. But at the same time it is not too obnoxiously rhubarb, and almost has a bergamot tea feel, especially at low concentration levels.

Petal pyranone (Jasmolactone) - good for jasmine or gardenia, gives a feel of jasmine oil, a white opaque creaminess since it is a lactone.
In fact I think it should be mentioned that some sort of lactone like this one is almost essential for either jasmine or gardenia.

I think Floral pyranol (Florol) might be kind of useful for both, although more for gardenia than jasmine, having a smooth feel sort of reminiscent of lily of the valley and clean magnolia, and also a slightly linalool-like effect.


If any of you have things to share, thoughts about jasmine and gardenia, and how they connect, you are welcome to add to these rambling thoughts.

I certainly don't expect this post to come anywhere close to a definitive cover-all of jasmine and gardenia notes, but it is just a few select thoughts.
I’ve just been concentrating on purchasing many of the materials mentioned, so find this post extremely useful. Completely confused as to anything supposedly negative commented. I , for one am very grateful for all the info.
 

parker25mv

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2016
2,709
626
I recently came across a large gardenia bush in bloom while walking through a neighborhood in June, and smelled the flowers. (presumably gardenia jasminoides, variety 'veitchii')
While smelling the flower I tried to attentively pick apart the smell and identify the subtleties.
First, I smelled what seemed to be like a "strawberry" note, but it was a very transparent light strawberry note, not like the fruit. Perhaps benzyl acetone could give that effect. The strawberry leaned a little towards rhubarb, so a tiny hint of gardenia decalone could be useful (or if that is not available, perhaps vetiver could be a second choice substitute).
Next I could pick out what seemed to be a prominent citronellol aspect.
After that, I could pick out a black tea note which seemed to strongly help shape the fragrance. Ketoisophorone (4-oxoisophorone) could be useful for that.
This is just what my instincts told me, ignoring everything I have ever read about gardenia formulas.

headspace analysis of 'Gardenia Bringhamii'
Roman Kaiser's 'Scents of the Vanishing Flora' on page 362-363
methyl benzoate 41%
cis-hex-3-enyl benzoate 13%
indol 7%

Probably most olfactorily characteristic is the 7% jasmine lactone (lactonic coconut-peachy).
cis-3-hexenyl tiglate 3.7% in headspace for sharp green contrast. Tauer calls it 'elegant mushroom' [mushroomy], while we would describe it as deep fatty-green foliage with stringent sharpness of pale unripe apple skin or freshly fumigated green bananas.
Scent and Chemistry, October 19, 2014.
 

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