How to improves rose perfume odor Strength

[Westly_Weng]

Dear all,

I create a rose perfume, it smell good. Citrus-Rose-Wood with SG Accord.

I want improve odor Strength, can i have some suggestion?

is there any other high-odor rose spice recommendations?

here is my formula:

Bergamot Oil-Italy	30​
bitter orange oil-Italy	50​
Orange Oil	40​
Litsea Cubeba Essential	2​
Rose Oxide90-BASF	0.5​
Doremox-Fir	0.5​
Phenyl Ethyl Acetate	3.5​
Geranyl Acetate	2.5​
DAMASCONE BETA-Fir	4​
Rose Givco 217-Giv	150​
Nerol	10​
Geraniol 950-BASF	30​
Rhodinol	30​
PEA	90​
Rosa damascena Essential Oil	50​
Irone Alpha-Giv	5​
Rosacetol	5​
Mefrosol	15​
ambrettolide-Giv	5​
Muscenone-Fir	5​
Isoraldeine 95-Giv	50​
Hedione-Fir	120​
Vertofix	40​
Cinnamic Alcohol	5​
Cedarwood Rect 922051-Fir	30​
Cashmeran-IFF	30​
Vetiver Oil	30​
Musk-T	50​
Ambrox S909158-Fir	4​
CETALOX-Fir	13​
Iso E Super-IFF	100​
Total	1000​

 

[perfumer86]

some patchouli, bit of ambermax and pink pepper or black . and some vanilla.

 

[ourmess]

Delta damascone.

 

[Solua Botanica]

Rosone

 

[pkiler]

uhhh, where is your Patchouli?
Pactchouli is a rose X multiplier.

 

[Ymsldn]

Citronellol I think is also typically used for rose and it is does pack a bit of power. If you want to maximise the impact you could try to sacrifice some of the softness/diffusion from your IES and hedione towards your more high impact materials.

 

[Westly_Weng]

some patchouli, bit of ambermax and pink pepper or black . and some vanilla.

uhhh, where is your Patchouli?
Pactchouli is a rose X multiplier.

thank you, i will try some Patchoulol or some Patchouli oil, maybe some raspberry ketone/vanilla, I don't have ambermax and pink pepper yet.

Delta damascone.

thank you, I have added DAMASCONE BETA，i will try increasing the BETA or adding some Delta.

Rosone

thank you,Rosone is the same with Rosacetol?

Citronellol I think is also typically used for rose and it is does pack a bit of power. If you want to maximise the impact you could try to sacrifice some of the softness/diffusion from your IES and hedione towards your more high impact materials.

thank you,i will try some more citronellol.

 

[Solua Botanica]

thank you,Rosone is the same with Rosacetol?

Rosone is also called Rose crystals
Never heard of Rosacetol

 

[steventeddy]

Rosone is also called Rose crystals
Never heard of Rosacetol

Rosacetol is listed as one of the synonyms to rose crystals on TGSC.

 

[parker25mv]

Citronellol I think is also typically used for rose and it is does pack a bit of power.

Yes, but there is already rhodinol in the formula. Rhodinol mainly contains citronellol.

Maybe you suggest up level of rhodinol?


I recently try "rose butanoate" (hard to find AC), it's pretty strong, if want fruity rose; bubblegum, mulberry, cherry, blueberry, pomegranate, peach, even passionfruit nuances. Could be used if anyone wants a more peach and guava smelling type rose.

 

[jfrater]

Tetrahydrogeraniol (dimethyl octanol) is very powerful and works well with the other rose materials - it is a bit coarse and often finds itself in functional products but it can be beautiful when dosed well in a fine fragrance too.

It works very well in equal amounts against a 4% overdose of ambrocenide in my sandalwood rose soap demo formula.

 

[parker25mv]

Tetrahydrogeraniol (dimethyl octanol) is very powerful and works well with the other rose materials - it is a bit coarse and often finds itself in functional products but it can be beautiful when dosed well in a fine fragrance too.

I am not sure there is really any point to using tetrahydrogeraniol instead of citronellol, unless the reason is concern over the allergen potential of citronellol.
tetrahydrogeraniol is kind of citronellol-like, but I personally find it inferior in smell. (Like I get hints of a beautiful citronellol rose effect from it sporadically, "smelling it from the sides", but the "smell facing it head on" is somewhat flat and sour.

If allergen skin irritation considerations are a concern, another alternative with a kind of citronellol-like effect is Phenoxanol, which can help supplement and "reinforce" the smell. Though it is really best to focus mainly on citronellol.

Prenyl acetate could maybe help add some freshness these substitutes lack but that is pretty fruity.

 

[parker25mv]

Based on formula, I do not have any recommendations to increase strength of rose. It seems to have every necessary thing in the formula.
Recommendation remake the formula focusing on the core of rose (the smaller more specific list of more important rose ingredients). It probably does not have enough of a certain thing you want to smell, but we cannot know what that smell is.

Core of rose would be damascenone and/or beta-damascone, citronellol, geraniol, PEA, then maybe ionones of next secondary importance.

Maybe you want a little clove oil for spice? That can add impact.
Or 1% an aldehyde for diffusiveness and brightening?

If that still not solve, maybe you try with dihydromyrcenol or calendula EO, small possibility it is added terpenic texture you are look for? (though those do not smell like rose specifically)

I also recommend maybe you experiment combining rose note with Javanol. That is classic combination, combines together nicely.
Though still that will not really make the smell very strong.

 

[jfrater]

I am not sure there is really any point to using tetrahydrogeraniol instead of citronellol, unless the reason is concern over the allergen potential of citronellol.
tetrahydrogeraniol is kind of citronellol-like, but I personally find it inferior in smell. (Like I get hints of a beautiful citronellol rose effect from it sporadically, "smelling it from the sides", but the "smell facing it head on" is somewhat flat and sour.

If allergen skin irritation considerations are a concern, another alternative with a kind of citronellol-like effect is Phenoxanol, which can help supplement and "reinforce" the smell. Though it is really best to focus mainly on citronellol.

Prenyl acetate could maybe help add some freshness these substitutes lack but that is pretty fruity.

I disagree with this. Dimethyl octanol is a wonderful and interesting addition to rose blends, complementing and adding power and nuance to the standard rose alcohols.

How have you found it to perform in your work with it? Perhaps you've had very different results over the years than I have and there may be something interesting I have to learn from your labours...

 

[parker25mv]

I disagree with this. Dimethyl octanol is a wonderful and interesting addition to rose blends, complementing and adding power and nuance to the standard rose alcohols.

Then we disagree.
(Of course it's always possible there could be something wrong with my sample of tetrahydrogeraniol, but I suspect this might come down more to personal perception. Just to clarify, you are saying that you think tetrahydrogeraniol adds something to rose blends that citronellol does not?)

 

[David Ruskin]

Please do not fall into the trap of adding more and more ingredients to an already unsatisfactory formula. If you want to try some of the suggestions made, please try them one at a time. Take small samples of your existing formula and add one new ingredient at a time, so you can judge the effect of that single material.

It may well be that it will be necessary to re-formulate, and, probably, simplify.

I could suggest a few more aromachemicals you could try but, at the moment, I think you have more than enough to be getting on with.

By the way, tetrahydro geraniol smells nothing like citronellol. It is much closer to geraniol. If anything it is even more citrus. Because of its stability it is used a lot in functional products, but I am sure would work well to boost the lemon-rose effect.

 

[Westly_Weng]

Yes, but there is already rhodinol in the formula. Rhodinol mainly contains citronellol.

Maybe you suggest up level of rhodinol?


I recently try "rose butanoate" (hard to find AC), it's pretty strong, if want fruity rose; bubblegum, mulberry, cherry, blueberry, pomegranate, peach, even passionfruit nuances. Could be used if anyone wants a more peach and guava smelling type rose.

thank you, I will get some rose butanoate sample,Javanol is a good idea also.
I have already used Phenoxanol(=Mefrosol)
aldehyde is too stronge,I'm having trouble getting the hang of it, it may take multiple experiments.

Tetrahydrogeraniol (dimethyl octanol) is very powerful and works well with the other rose materials - it is a bit coarse and often finds itself in functional products but it can be beautiful when dosed well in a fine fragrance too.

It works very well in equal amounts against a 4% overdose of ambrocenide in my sandalwood rose soap demo formula.

thank you, I will get some Tetrahydrogeraniol (dimethyl octanol) sample,I have not tried it yet.

Please do not fall into the trap of adding more and more ingredients to an already unsatisfactory formula. If you want to try some of the suggestions made, please try them one at a time. Take small samples of your existing formula and add one new ingredient at a time, so you can judge the effect of that single material.

It may well be that it will be necessary to re-formulate, and, probably, simplify.

I could suggest a few more aromachemicals you could try but, at the moment, I think you have more than enough to be getting on with.

By the way, tetrahydro geraniol smells nothing like citronellol. It is much closer to geraniol. If anything it is even more citrus. Because of its stability it is used a lot in functional products, but I am sure would work well to boost the lemon-rose effect.

Yes, David, you are right. i will get some new ingredient and try it in a basic formula.
maybe I should recreate my formula, such as add some oriental elements？
it may take a long time to finish this formula.

 

[mnitabach]

Please do not fall into the trap of adding more and more ingredients to an already unsatisfactory formula. If you want to try some of the suggestions made, please try them one at a time. Take small samples of your existing formula and add one new ingredient at a time, so you can judge the effect of that single material.

It may well be that it will be necessary to re-formulate, and, probably, simplify.

I could suggest a few more aromachemicals you could try but, at the moment, I think you have more than enough to be getting on with.

By the way, tetrahydro geraniol smells nothing like citronellol. It is much closer to geraniol. If anything it is even more citrus. Because of its stability it is used a lot in functional products, but I am sure would work well to boost the lemon-rose effect.

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

 

[Casper_grassy]

I am not sure there is really any point to using tetrahydrogeraniol instead of citronellol, unless the reason is concern over the allergen potential of citronellol.
tetrahydrogeraniol is kind of citronellol-like, but I personally find it inferior in smell. (Like I get hints of a beautiful citronellol rose effect from it sporadically, "smelling it from the sides", but the "smell facing it head on" is somewhat flat and sour.

If allergen skin irritation considerations are a concern, another alternative with a kind of citronellol-like effect is Phenoxanol, which can help supplement and "reinforce" the smell. Though it is really best to focus mainly on citronellol.

Prenyl acetate could maybe help add some freshness these substitutes lack but that is pretty fruity.

Though siimilar, Dimethyl Octanol and Citronellol smell different as does Citronellol to Rhodinol.

Phenoxanol doesn’t smell like or have similar effects as Citronellol.

I am also a betting man, and I would bet the house on the fact you have never purchased, were given or smelled “rose butanoate”.

There is also nothing wrong with your dimethyl octanol, you would need to possess it first for something to be wrong.

 

[Casper_grassy]

To the OP, if I can offer any help at all, I’d suggest stripping this down.
Looking at the formula you have everything you need to achieve a nice fragrance you just need to work out the materials to perfect their balance.

You can increase the Iso E Super, Hedione and Cetalox and Musk T to create a foundation and build the rose note on that, then add in slowly the other elements to give it some character.

Can you add stuff? Of course, One thing I’ve learned is there’s always something to add, but thinking that way, you’ll never finish anything.