How does Laevo-Citronellol compare to normal Citronellol?

[mnitabach]

This might certainly be the case, although i´ve added some vitamin a and stored it in the fridge it might have been off before.



Reducing the citronellol was apparently really a valid move. I did so, and also added phenohexanol, and it smells far softer, fruitier, and not nearly as harsh anymore. Beginning is really fruity, but it quickly mellows out. Next morning it´s a pretty soft citronellol so far.

Pretty happy so far. Needs further refinement, but my nose has to chill for a few days, since i can´t smell pea at all at the moment. It´s annoying to get anosmia with this material pretty much instantly.

This is the current formula:

PEA 355,000
Citronellol 200,000
Geraniol 160,000
Farnesol 40,000
Beta Damascone 4,000
Rose Oxide 1% 10,000
Nerol 30,000
Linalool 20,000
Rose Absolue Bulgarian 50,000
Chamomille EO 10,000
Phenylhexanol 50,000
Rose Crystals 50,000
Methyl Isoeugenol 10,000
Phenylethylacetat 10,000
Aldehyde c11 Undecylenic 1,000

It would definitely be interesting for you to try adding 10 ppt phenyl acetic acid and/or 1 ppt phenyl acetaldehyde.

 

[Capybaron]

Oh, i certainly didn´t forget your notes and ideas!

Due to my nose quickly tiring of rose materials, testing takes time. But the next thing i will try is indeed adding phenyl acetaldehyde. It´s one of the materials i like, but i haven´t used yet much, so that´s interesting- Especially since, as you noted, it could support the quiet rose crystals in the dry down.

 

[mnitabach]

Oh, i certainly didn´t forget your notes and ideas!

Due to my nose quickly tiring of rose materials, testing takes time. But the next thing i will try is indeed adding phenyl acetaldehyde. It´s one of the materials i like, but i haven´t used yet much, so that´s interesting- Especially since, as you noted, it could support the quiet rose crystals in the dry down.

It's phenyl acetic acid that persists into the long drydown. Phenyl acetaldehyde doesn't contribute nearly as long into the evaporation curve.

 

[Capybaron]

It's phenyl acetic acid that persists into the long drydown. Phenyl acetaldehyde doesn't contribute nearly as long into the evaporation curve.

Good to know! Mhm, wouldn´t know where to source Phenyl acetic acid right now. Maybe pcw offers it. I will add it to the list.

Didn´t test the longevity of Phenyl Acetaldehyde ymyself et, but goodscentscompany gives it 400 hours on a scent strip, which made me think that it lasts quite a while.

 

[Emanuel76]

Sadly, this site would be perfect and would offer some materials i´d be very interested in- But they don´t ship outside of the UK.

Hello!

This is Marina.

I wish it was that easy, but it's not about changing our mind, it's about the fact that it's illegal to send dangerous goods without special training and, at the moment, we don't have anybody who can do it! Also, since Brexit, some countries don't allow perfumes unless the buyer has an import licence, or just return the parcels, including Spain and Italy. It's also very expensive!

If you let me know what you would like to order and a full delivery address, I can speak to one of our forwarding partners and ask for a quote, then let you know how much it will be.
Thank you for your interest, we appreciate it

Marina

I have a lot of aromatics for the rose, and one of the most important - Citronellol Laevo - I do not like it at all. 😆
I must have Rhodinol Natural Ex Geranium.

 

[parker25mv]

I have a lot of aromatics for the rose, and one of the most important - Citronellol Laevo - I do not like it at all. 😆

I almost wonder if your citronellol has gone off. It's personally hard for me to understand how someone could not like citronellol at all.
If you do not dislike the smell of tetrahydro geraniol, then there might be something wrong with your citronellol.

Do you dislike the smell of lemons and geraniol too?

 

[mnitabach]

I have a lot of aromatics for the rose, and one of the most important - Citronellol Laevo - I do not like it at all. 😆
I must have Rhodinol Natural Ex Geranium.

Whether someone "likes" how an aromamaterial in isolation "smells" has essentially nothing to do with perfumery.

 

[Emanuel76]

I almost wonder if your citronellol has gone off.

I don't think so.

It's personally hard for me to understand how someone could not like citronellol at all.

Well, I'm definitely not a freshie guy. 😋

If you do not dislike the smell of tetrahydro geraniol, then there might be something wrong with your citronellol.

I don't know how Tetrahydro Geraniol smells like.

It's on my wish list (DirectPCW). 😋

Do you dislike the smell of lemons and geraniol too?

Not a big fan of Lemon.
Geraniol it's OK.

Whether someone "likes" how an aromamaterial in isolation "smells" has essentially nothing to do with perfumery.

When in a Rose base Citronellol is at 30-40-50%, I doubt the base will not have a pronounced green tint. I don't want a greenish rose.

 

[David Ruskin]

I am confused. I would never have described citronellol as Green. Of the three common rose alcohols; PEA is watery, Tea Rose; Geraniol is citrus rose; Citronellol is Red Rose.

When an ingredient is used as often as citronellol, you have to ask yourself, why? There must be some point in its popularity. It is unimportant if you do or don't like the smell of a single material. What is important is what can be done with it. Citronellol has been used in many, many different fragrances. To dismiss it out of hand is, at best, naive.

Comparing citronellol with the smells of other chemicals is not, in my opinion, terrible helpful.

 

[mnitabach]

H

I don't think so.


Well, I'm definitely not a freshie guy. 😋


I don't know how Tetrahydro Geraniol smells like.

It's on my wish list (DirectPCW). 😋


Not a big fan of Lemon.
Geraniol it's OK.


When in a Rose base Citronellol is at 30-40-50%, I doubt the base will not have a pronounced green tint. I don't want a greenish rose.

Have you actually made a rose accord??? You can set the balance between geraniol & citronellol & PEA wherever you like. My suggestion would be that instead of sniffing individual aromamaterials & posting verbose descriptions of how they smell to you & whether you "like" them or not, that you devote the time recovered to assembling & testing combinations of aromamaterials, specifically in regard to the topic of this thread rose accord.

 

[Emanuel76]

Citronellol is Red Rose.

Wow! I didn't expect that.
Mine smells citrus-herbal, like citronella.

When an ingredient is used as often as citronellol, you have to ask yourself, why? There must be some point in its popularity.

Well, I thought because a lot of people like their rose a bit more on the green side.

To dismiss it out of hand is, at best, naive.

I don't dismiss it.
But I want to be prepared for when I start blending, with something less green, too.

Have you actually made a rose accord??? You can set the balance between geraniol & citronellol & PEA wherever you like. My suggestion would be that instead of sniffing individual aromamaterials & posting verbose descriptions of how they smell to you & whether you "like" them or not, that you devote the time recovered to assembling & testing combinations of aromamaterials, specifically in regard to the topic of this thread rose accord.

I already told you that only in the fall I'll start blending.
For now that's all I can do, to smell them.

 

[mnitabach]

Wow! I didn't expect that.
Mine smells citrus-herbal, like citronella.


Well, I thought because a lot of people like their rose a bit more on the green side.


I don't dismiss it.
But I want to be prepared for when I start blending with something less green, too.


I already told you that only in the fall I start with blends.
For now that's all I can do, to smell them.

Well, I think you are wasting your own time & effort. And the time & effort of the people on here who are reading your posts & replying to them. I will try to remember not to...

 

[jsweet]

Wow! I didn't expect that.
Mine smells citrus-herbal, like citronella.

Are you sure you are not smelling citronellal.

 

[Emanuel76]

Well, I think you are wasting your own time & effort. And the time & effort of the people on here who are reading your posts & replying to them. I will try to remember not to...

Well, of course, It's your choice.

Are you sure you are not smelling citronellal.

No. It's Citronellol Laveo from DirectPCW.

​

.

 

[David Ruskin]

Wow! I didn't expect that.
Mine smells citrus-herbal, like citronella.

Seems to me that your citronellol contains a lot of citronellal. Shame.

 

[Emanuel76]

Seems to me that your citronellol contains a lot of citronellal. Shame.

I'll buy one from somewhere else.

On this occasion it was also partialy clarified the Citronellol vs Laevo Citronellol issue from the first post.

So, Capybaron, don't buy Laevo Citronellol from DirectPCW. Things will not change much. That Laevo Citronellol is also in the Citronella direction, just like the Citronellol you already have.

 

[perfumer86]

have smelled both citronellol , PEA and geraniol synthetic and natural versions. hands down the natural version surpasses. citronellol natural is red rose, sweet, fresh. natural isolates beats the synthetic everytime.

 

[pkiler]

The natural version is going to have tagalong molecules, impurities, that come from the source. Yes, It likely smells better due to these impurities, but not because it is "natural". All molecules have tagalong impurities from the processing that they go through.

have smelled both citronellol , PEA and geraniol synthetic and natural versions. hands down the natural version surpasses. citronellol natural is red rose, sweet, fresh. natural isolates beats the synthetic everytime.

 

[parker25mv]

citronellol natural is red rose, sweet, fresh. natural isolates beats the synthetic everytime.

The natural version is going to have tagalong molecules, impurities, that come from the source. Yes, It likely smells better due to these impurities, but not because it is "natural".

I agree. If you are thinking the natural citronellol smells like red roses, what you are probably smelling is the geraniol which it contains, in my opinion. That is very much shaping and shifting the character of the smell.

But my personal opinion may not be worth much. I will concede I could be wrong here, particularly since perception and association of smells with other things can be very subjective and vary by individual.

 

[mnitabach]

The natural version is going to have tagalong molecules, impurities, that come from the source. Yes, It likely smells better due to these impurities, but not because it is "natural". All molecules have tagalong impurities from the processing that they go through.

True! OTOH, however, I think it is generally much more a priori likely that tagalongs to natural isolates contribute desirable scent effects than tagalongs to synthetic. This reminds me of something interesting. One of the reasons I love the biotech PEA synthesized by genetically engineered yeast is that it lacks BOTH harsh chemically tagalongs of some organically synthesized PEA materials AND otherwise-nice rosy tagalongs of botanical PEA isolates. This PEA material is, accordingly, perfectly suited for use in non-rosy contexts or for when you want to create your own precisely tuned rose accord without interference from tagalongs.

ETA: I think we need the 🤮 emoji as an option in the forum "like" function... 😹 😹 😹