GCMS Services - Comparisons

[jfrater]

We had a recent discussion on another post about GCMS services and I made a light criticism of Creative Accord. I figured we should have a post wherein we discuss the merits (or demerits!) of services. I have three main services I'll discuss - then I hope others will add their own.

Creative Accord

COST: FRAGRANCE $1000; BASE (no ethanol) $350 USD

As I mentioned in my other post, I had an issue wherein these guys wouldn't give me raw data - though later they did. However, the raw data did not match up with what I knew to be in the sample tested. I asked for an explanation and was given none - I have still not received one and I have since stopped using this service. The staff, particularly Justin, are wonderful people but alas the service was not quite up to what I was expecting.

This is a redacted copy of one of the $1,000 reports:



And this is the raw data I finally received:


CAVEAT: This was in 2015 - perhaps they produce reports differently now - many years have passed. I'd love to get an update. They really are such nice people that I hope their service is now second to none and they are doing well. Beyond the slight problems in the formula that I later discovered, I have no complaints (except the price! ouch!)

Phytochemia

Cost: $325 CAD from July 2023, roughly $240 USD

Next we have PhytoChemia a company in Quebec. They are currently very slow (just under one month turnaround in my most recent experience) but the results are good. They list "unknowns" which, by comparison to some years ago, are not that many. I did a side-by-side comparison of Phytochemia with WB2Lab in China and I post the results below. As per the comments below, you can request a CSV file that will get you to 3 decimal places and they also supply CAS numbers.

Here's a snippet of one of their reports (note the absence of CAS numbers - these are annoyingly supplied in a separate file):



The result (2023) was listed as 99.38% consolidated total.

WB2LAB

COST: $220 USD

WB2Lab is in China. The service is very similar to phytochemia but cheaper. Unfortunately they appear to round their results up which hides unknowns. I have used this company in the past a fair amount and the results were definitely good - though in more recent trials I am not so happy about the hidden unknowns as it blocks my ability to get a true account of the actual known materials and can really skew the results regarding naturals.

I had them analyse a number of the same products as PhytoChemia (same bottles, etc) and my preference when I blended the results was for the WB2LAB analysis in all cases - BUT in 2023 with updated databases, Phytochemia re-analysed my earlier results and the outcome was on a par. By default they go down to 3 decimals which makes identifying essential oils easier as the traces often hide the clue (but remember that you are getting a rounded result). Here's one of their reports:



They place in red the items they think are part of an essential oil, while the black are direct adds. However this is not always accurate (it's not possible to be certain). For example - the above wrongly omits red from the evernyl which is from real oakmoss as evernyl didn't exist as a synthetic at the time this product was made. CAS numbers and 3 decimals in the report are standard.

One caveat you should be aware of is that Wb2Lab adds all the GCMS analyses they do to a PDF which they share with new customers who can then buy copies of the analysis. This is not the company to use if privacy is a big concern for you.

COMPARISON - WB2LAB vs PhytoChemia

So I did a side-by-side with these two. I decanted the same amount of the product from the same bottle and sent it to both companies. Here are the side by side numbers that came back:



I blended both mixtures and the conclusion was that the WB2lab result was closer to the sample I had sent. However, Phytochemia sent me an updated GCMS based on their new library (a few years later) and the results were significantly improved. Their recognition of naturals was very good.

2023 September Update: For speed use Wb2Lab. For discretion use PhytoChemia. The results are not dissimilar enough to use that as the only deciding factor.

NOTE ON SENDING SAMPLES

All companies above ask for a 2ml sample to work from. This can be supplied in any vessel safe for international transport. If you want to be really accurate in reporting this for international shipping, use HS code 3302.90.11 and in the description use "Synthetic Aroma materials, UN3082 Environmentally Hazardous Substance, not restricted"

UN3082 is technically dangerous goods but companies like DHL accept them as non-dangerous for shipping purposes as they are merely hazardous to the environment (if you dump them in streams for example). UN3082 will cover pretty much all non-ethanol products.

If you have alcohol (perfume sample), you will have to ship it as "Dangerous goods in excepted quantities" (UN1266 Perfumery Products) as per the IATA regulations. Most carriers won't take these unless you have a dangerous goods certificate or use a DG third party shipper. Customs code for these are HS 3303.00.

 

[downmemorylane]

I appreciate your summary, I don't have any experience myself using GCMS services. Eventually I might have some and I'll chip in. But so far thanks for the comparison between the three.🙏

WB2Lab could you perhaps add a link to their website? Can't seem to locate them.

 

[tensor9]

We have some of the most advanced GC equipment on the planet where I work (GCxGC MS).

Too bad I can’t use it to analyze perfumes!

 

[polysom]

Thanks. That is a quite interesting topic. Maybe somebody knows of such service in Europe, I was looking for this already without luck.
By the way, I was wondering how do you send them the samples and how much volume they need? Do they send you special containers for the samples or can you send them the samples in any container/tube/flask?

 

[jfrater]

We have some of the most advanced GC equipment on the planet where I work (GCxGC MS).

Too bad I can’t use it to analyze perfumes!

Get a job moonlighting as a night janitor and sneak access to the machines

 

[jfrater]

Thanks. That is a quite interesting topic. Maybe somebody knows of such service in Europe, I was looking for this already without luck.
By the way, I was wondering how do you send them the samples and how much volume they need? Do they send you special containers for the samples or can you send them the samples in any container/tube/flask?

1ml for Phytochemia, 2ml for the others. I send them in small vials. Here are some samples just before I sent them:

 

[polysom]

1ml for Phytochemia, 2ml for the others. I send them in small vials. Here are some samples just before I sent them:

Thanks. 1-2ml should be doable for most samples.

 

[RSG]

I have a new pamphlet from phyotochemia saying 2ml for this year.

 

[filipeleira]

Very helpful, Jamie. Thanks!
A quick info on Phytochemia: you can also have the numbers with 3 decimals if you request the CSV file.

 

[ScentAle]

Very interesting and useful, thank you Jamie!

 

[jfrater]

I have a new pamphlet from phyotochemia saying 2ml for this year.

Thanks - I've updated the text and also added some information on shipping these samples.

 

[jfrater]

I appreciate your summary, I don't have any experience myself using GCMS services. Eventually I might have some and I'll chip in. But so far thanks for the comparison between the three.🙏

WB2Lab could you perhaps add a link to their website? Can't seem to locate them.

I've added their email - they have no website that I am aware of.

 

[downmemorylane]

I've added their email - they have no website that I am aware of.

Thanks 🙏 No it showed me, that website cannot be shown outside China..... The great firewall.

 

[jfrater]

Very helpful, Jamie. Thanks!
A quick info on Phytochemia: you can also have the numbers with 3 decimals if you request the CSV file.

Thanks Filipe - I've updated the post.

 

[pkiler]

Very helpful, Jamie. Thanks!
A quick info on Phytochemia: you can also have the numbers with 3 decimals if you request the CSV file.

.csv is always requested, on my works... as copying from a PDF is a bugger to put into my excel sheet...

 

[Lucofborg]

Thank you Jamie for sharing your experiences with those three labs. I'm mostly used to Phytochemia. I think I've sent 3 samples there. I was mostly satisfied but I found that they missed too many molecules. For example I've seen two analysis from 2 fragrances that I know contains veramoss/evernyl, and not in traces, but never appears in there reports.

I've noticed that the Creative Accord raw data doesn't appear to go as deep as I thought. Only 2 decimals, compared to WB2LAB, which goes to 4. So I'm wondering, is the $1000 because Creative Accord also makes a final formula for us?

 

[Onefragrance]

We had a recent discussion on another post about GCMS services and I made a light criticism of Creative Accord. I figured we should have a post wherein we discuss the merits (or demerits!) of services. I have three main services I'll discuss - then I hope others will add their own.

Creative Accord

COST: FRAGRANCE $1000; BASE (no ethanol) $350 USD

As I mentioned in my other post, I had an issue wherein these guys wouldn't give me raw data - though later they did. However, the raw data did not match up with what I knew to be in the sample tested. I asked for an explanation and was given none - I have still not received one and I have since stopped using this service. The staff, particularly Justin, are wonderful people but alas the service was not quite up to what I was expecting.

This is a redacted copy of one of the $1,000 reports:

View attachment 317424

And this is the raw data I finally received:

View attachment 317425
CAVEAT: This was in 2015 - perhaps they produce reports differently now - many years have passed. I'd love to get an update. They really are such nice people that I hope their service is now second to none and they are doing well. Beyond the slight problems in the formula that I later discovered, I have no complaints (except the price! ouch!)

Phytochemia

Cost: $160 USD ($210 CAD in 2020)

Next we have PhytoChemia a company in Quebec. They are fast and the results are good though often with a lot of "unknowns". I did a side-by-side comparison of Phytochemia with WB2Lab in China and I post the results below. For a while these guys were my go to and I had a LOT of samples tested by them. Service was fast and the staff are knowledgeable. As per the comments below, you can request a CSV file that will get you to 3 decimal places.

Here's a snippet of one of their reports (note the absence of CAS numbers):

View attachment 317426

The result was listed as 96.65% consolidated total (including all the unknowns, and there are sometimes many).

WB2LAB

COST: $180 USD

WB2Lab is in China. The service is very similar to phytochemia but the results appear to be better (note I say "appear"). There are no "unknowns" and you get a 100% report. However, it is possible that they simply omit that data. There is no real reason to include it. I have used this company quite a lot and you shouldn't be put off by the fact they are in China.

I had them analyse a number of the same products as PhytoChemia (same bottles, etc) and my preference when I blended the results was for the WB2LAB analysis in all cases. It appeared more nuanced and complete and closer to the original. By default they go down to 3 decimals which makes identifying essential oils easier as the traces often hide the clues. Here's one of their reports:

View attachment 317427

They very nicely place in red the items they think are part of an essential oil, while the black are direct adds. However this is not always accurate (it's not possible to be certain). For example - the above indicates real oakmoss as evernyl didn't exist as a synthetic at the time this product was made. The decimal accuracy on the incensole and phytyl acetate really helps figure out the amount of olibanum and jasmin absolute. CAS numbers are really vital in some cases. Honestly no GCMS service should be issuing reports without CAS numbers.

COMPARISON - WB2LAB vs PhytoChemia

So I did a side-by-side with these two. I decanted the same amount of the product from the same bottle and sent it to both companies. Here are the side by side numbers that came back:

View attachment 317428

I blended both mixtures and the conclusion was that the WB2lab result was far closer to the sample I had sent.

NOTE ON SENDING SAMPLES

All companies above ask for a 2ml sample to work from. This can be supplied in any vessel safe for international transport. If you want to be really accurate in reporting this for international shipping, use HS code 3302.90.11 and in the description use "Synthetic Aroma materials, UN3082 Environmentally Hazardous Substance, not restricted"

UN3082 is technically dangerous goods but companies like DHL accept them as non-dangerous for shipping purposes as they are merely hazardous to the environment (if you dump them in streams for example). UN3082 will cover pretty much all non-ethanol products.

If you have alcohol (perfume sample), you will have to ship it as "Dangerous goods in excepted quantities" (UN1266 Perfumery Products) as per the IATA regulations. Most carriers won't take these unless you have a dangerous goods certificate or use a DG third party shipper. Customs code for these are HS 3303.00.

Wow! This is very interesting and fascinating. Thanks. The price of the first GCMS analysis was super-duper expensive compared with its results.

On Creative Formulas's site I saw that they have lots of iconic fragrances reconstructed with very high accuracy based on the GCMS analysis.

 

[jfrater]

Thank you Jamie for sharing your experiences with those three labs. I'm mostly used to Phytochemia. I think I've sent 3 samples there. I was mostly satisfied but I found that they missed too many molecules. For example I've seen two analysis from 2 fragrances that I know contains veramoss/evernyl, and not in traces, but never appears in there reports.

I've noticed that the Creative Accord raw data doesn't appear to go as deep as I thought. Only 2 decimals, compared to WB2LAB, which goes to 4. So I'm wondering, is the $1000 because Creative Accord also makes a final formula for us?

I believe yes - the cost is in the fact that they do the GCMS and then develop a final product from it. I'm not sure if they even offer a GCMS raw data only service - perhaps they do these days. The report I received for one of the fragrances had a lot of stuff in it that was not possible at the time of the perfume being created and missed many things I knew to be there. That is what prompted me to ask for raw data.

 

[julian35]

I always appreciate your experience sharing Jamie. Excellent information. I will give Phytochemia a try and thank you for the Canadian recommendation.
It is definitely a tricky area and I wonder how these significant variations on CGMS reporting are accurately supporting the IFRA restrictions and "reliable" paperwork?

 

[Eric Anthony]

I was going to message you, but figured it best to ask in the open where it might also help someone else with the same question, but you didn't mention the difference in SPEED. I also remember you're not based in the same country as me, so wondering if that will play into it as well.

How fast were the samples processed?