"fixatives"

[Bill Roberts]

Thank you, Paul!

I did believe I had read Fixateur 404 was (largely rather than necessarily entirely?) diluted ambroxide, most likely from David but possibly Jamie, but was not confident in it. Good to know for sure.

 

[julian35]

Just picking this thread up again, noticed there is a Citropol demonstration just popped up on P&F for anyone interested.
888224-71-3
Polycitronellol
Does anyone have any real experience with using this product since the original posting. Opinions?

https://event.on24.com/wcc/r/4181375/2971069748F6C3C9168DC93D804C5935

 

[julian35]

I see that Perfumer's Apprentice is selling Citropol now. https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-9615-citropol-f.aspx

 

[Gadgets82]

Has anyone used this citropol F yet? Im wondering if it enhances diffusion or substantivity or anything other than sustainability?

I contacted P2 about it, theyre sending me out a sample. I was just wondering of anyone elses experience with it, given that it was tested against BB.

 

[parker25mv]

I get the impression that citropol F is mainly an emollient (somewhat like polyethylene glycol), rather than specifically an aroma chemical, though it may have somewhat of a weak citronellol-like smell perhaps somewhat analogous to some of the other ACs that are said to have a citronellol-like smell.
It might have some light fixative effect or, on skin, help slow down evaporation of the fragrance, though I really do not know for sure.

They say citropol F can solubilize (help easily dissolve) essential oils and fragrance ingredients, and that it can allow a controlled release of volatile ingredients over an extended period of time (though that's probably more referring to when the fragrance is in the form of a cream).

One person on Reddit commented they were able to use citropol F to make the notes in a citrus fragrance last longer.

 

[julian35]

Has anyone used this citropol F yet? Im wondering if it enhances diffusion or substantivity or anything other than sustainability?

I received their test sample kit a month ago and attended the recent webinar. (the webinar was pretty bland but they answered a few questions from those attending)

Basically the test box has to small jars with skin cream and 2 small vials; one with fragrance, 1 with Citropol® F.
You take the frangrance and put a couple of drops into each cream jar. You then take the Citropol® F and add one drop to one jar. Mix both jars with the handy dandy mixing paddles they also supply and label the two jars with the handy dandy labels they provide. Now you are ready to test.

Put one cream on one the back of one hand and the other cream on the back of your other hand. Smell the difference over time.
I coerced my wife in to experimenting in a blind test; she did not know which cream had the Citropol® F.
A while later she felt the one with Citropol® F lasted longer and was stronger. I did the experiment as well but obviously not blind. I agreed.. the one with the Citropol® F was stronger a bit and did last longer on the skin.

I have recently received a larger amount from Perfumer's apprentice so I will see how it works with my formulations.

I did ask P2 what they recommend for optimal dosage. The answer I got was: "We suggest a starting ratio of 1:2 (1 being Citropol® F and 2 being fragrance) in cosmetics, but it can start as low as 1:5 in a highly loaded fragrance context (as a perfume or cologne would be). Dosing studies are recommended to find the ideal level but those are great starting points."

They also mentioned in the webinar that Citropol® F Accentuate VARIOUS notes. When I questioned this the reply was: "We have found that Floral notes, specifically Lavender scents, show the most remarkable improvement in scent longevity. However, Citropol® F works with all fragrances. "

Hope that helps.

Julian

 

[Gadgets82]

I received their test sample kit a month ago and attended the recent webinar. (the webinar was pretty bland but they answered a few questions from those attending)

Basically the test box has to small jars with skin cream and 2 small vials; one with fragrance, 1 with Citropol® F.
You take the frangrance and put a couple of drops into each cream jar. You then take the Citropol® F and add one drop to one jar. Mix both jars with the handy dandy mixing paddles they also supply and label the two jars with the handy dandy labels they provide. Now you are ready to test.

Put one cream on one the back of one hand and the other cream on the back of your other hand. Smell the difference over time.
I coerced my wife in to experimenting in a blind test; she did not know which cream had the Citropol® F.
A while later she felt the one with Citropol® F lasted longer and was stronger. I did the experiment as well but obviously not blind. I agreed.. the one with the Citropol® F was stronger a bit and did last longer on the skin.

I have recently received a larger amount from Perfumer's apprentice so I will see how it works with my formulations.

I did ask P2 what they recommend for optimal dosage. The answer I got was: "We suggest a starting ratio of 1:2 (1 being Citropol® F and 2 being fragrance) in cosmetics, but it can start as low as 1:5 in a highly loaded fragrance context (as a perfume or cologne would be). Dosing studies are recommended to find the ideal level but those are great starting points."

They also mentioned in the webinar that Citropol® F Accentuate VARIOUS notes. When I questioned this the reply was: "We have found that Floral notes, specifically Lavender scents, show the most remarkable improvement in scent longevity. However, Citropol® F works with all fragrances. "

Hope that helps.

Julian

Thank you very much!
This was an immense help in understanding what they were actually positioning citropol for.

I missed the webinar by a few days (didnt see about it till afterwards).

I did ask them a couple of questions on their messaging app, they said it could also be used as a diluent much like dpg. Idk how much stock id put into that but im gonna conduct those tests when i get it.

Thanks again!