Esteé Lauder Brand Re-Org

[otterlake]

If I missed a thread about this, let me know:

https://www.fragrantica.com/news/Estée-Lauder-to-Thin-Out-its-Brands-Portfolio-15643.html

Lauder is dropping the following brands:
*DKNY (moving to Inter Parfums)
*Donna Karan (moving to Inter Parfums)
*Ermenegildo Zegna
*Michael Kors (moving to EuroItalia)
*Tommy Hilfiger

Aramis is staying on but is getting shuffled around (which explains, I guess, why everything except the original Aramis has been discontinued).

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Looks to me like Lauder is letting go of anything sub-$100 and going fully designer prestige/psuedo-niche. Tom Ford (which is overpriced) will be their new baseline outside of their own house brand. Looks like it's time to tune out from this house unless you're willing to spend bank on Malle, Le Labo, etc.

Sad to see the Aramis division killed off, but at least the original scent folds back into the parent company. Aramis originally launched as a Lauder scent in 1964 anyway, and was only given it's own house a year later due to demand. I'm stocked up on the gentlemen's collection anyway so if they all go unicorn now, I'm set. Let it all burn lol

The sad truth is Aramis catered literally to a dying customer base, like Sears and Avon. Outside collectors and fragheads like us, nobody under 50 in the mainstream was really buying Aramis. It was getting that "Old Spice/English Leather vibe" of being for retirees etc. Anything released under the Aramis brand went straight into discounters because the Aramis name carried no clout with the Instafluencerhypebeast crowd.

News like this makes it clear that more and more the future is in independent perfumers, as the general sentiment with the mainstream industry is to homogenize options for the "lower" classes, and push novelty/trend/limited editions for the rich that buy perfume as baubles or displays of vanity. Lauder has chosen the latter direction as per their portfolio choices.

 

[Oviatt]

Well, this dying customer (base!) will buy anything I see if things like Tuscany (my SOTD) gluts the discounters. Truth be told, I think that they already have.

 

[cacio]

Thanks for the info. I had actually not realized that these brands were produced by EL. I guess they weren't doing that much money. For Michael Kors, I wonder whether it's also because now that Kors owns Versace, Kors may have wanted to rationalize the organization of their perfumes.

As for Aramis, it's such an American symbol that Lauder will not want to kill it. But they may change the way they distribute it. I don't think the other Aramis were making much money.

Will stuff hit the discounters? I hope so-I wouldn't mind discounted Zegnas.

cacio

 

[hednic]

Sad to hear they're dropping Zegna. Sad to hear they're keeping Aramis.

 

[otterlake]

Well, this dying customer (base!) will buy anything I see if things like Tuscany (my SOTD) gluts the discounters. Truth be told, I think that they already have.

Tuscany prices have already risen.

Aside from JHL and Tuscany, there still seems to be plenty of the others around, though.

 

[otterlake]

News like this makes it clear that more and more the future is in independent perfumers, as the general sentiment with the mainstream industry is to homogenize options for the "lower" classes, and push novelty/trend/limited editions for the rich that buy perfume as baubles or displays of vanity. Lauder has chosen the latter direction as per their portfolio choices.

I think you're right.

That said, most of these brands were on life support, no? Brands like Kors almost seemed to have a pipeline straight to Marshalls/TJ Maxx.

Zegna is the outlier here: an expensive, luxury designer in the vein of Tom Ford. I don't know how well the Zegna stuff sold, but there was no discounter tidal wave of the more premium stuff to indicate a supply/demand mismatch.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Well, this dying customer (base!) will buy anything I see if things like Tuscany (my SOTD) gluts the discounters. Truth be told, I think that they already have.

Wasn't meant as a slight. If you read my whole post, you'll know that I excluded people in the fragrance community.

Tuscany prices have already risen.

Aside from JHL and Tuscany, there still seems to be plenty of the others around, though.

I think you're right.

That said, most of these brands were on life support, no? Brands like Kors almost seemed to have a pipeline straight to Marshalls/TJ Maxx.

Zegna is the outlier here: an expensive, luxury designer in the vein of Tom Ford. I don't know how well the Zegna stuff sold, but there was no discounter tidal wave of the more premium stuff to indicate a supply/demand mismatch.

Payed an arm and leg for JHL, and more for Tuscany than I'd like too, but that's The Way of the Unicorn, isn't it?

Zegna had some "designer level" stuff too, but it all got discontinued to my knowledge and is.. you guessed it... also unicorny.

 

[PStoller]

News like this makes it clear that more and more the future is in independent perfumers, as the general sentiment with the mainstream industry is to homogenize options for the "lower" classes, and push novelty/trend/limited editions for the rich that buy perfume as baubles or displays of vanity.

For the most part, indie perfumers aren't exactly catering to the "lower classes," either, in terms of accessible style, distribution, or price point. This news points to the death of the drugstore fragrance as a category, more as confirmation than any actual change.

If it's any comfort, these market trends tend to be cyclical. EL's shift to upscale-only frags (or redefining "midscale," depending on your POV) leaves a wide enough gap in the market that, sooner or later, someone else will regard as an opportunity. Perhaps even the next CEO of EL.

 

[woodnotes55]

Looks to me like Lauder is letting go of anything sub-$100 and going fully designer prestige/psuedo-niche. Tom Ford (which is overpriced) will be their new baseline outside of their own house brand..........

Zegna is a strange fit in this, as I would guess 80% or more of their current lineup do not fall in the sub-100 range.

Sad to hear they're dropping Zegna. Sad to hear they're keeping Aramis.

Wasn't meant as a slight. If you read my whole post, you'll know that I excluded people in the fragrance community.




Payed an arm and leg for JHL, and more for Tuscany than I'd like too, but that's The Way of the Unicorn, isn't it?

Zegna had some "designer level" stuff too, but it all got discontinued to my knowledge and is.. you guessed it... also unicorny.

Agreed on Zegna!!

Wondering which designer ones mentioned here. Can only think of a couple of discontinued ones (colonia, essenza) but maybe just not aware..... They still have a handful of designer ones that seem to show up at discounters now and then, and then the rest of the lines (elements, essenze) that are difficult to find on discount and never cheap.

................

Zegna is the outlier here: an expensive, luxury designer in the vein of Tom Ford. I don't know how well the Zegna stuff sold, but there was no discounter tidal wave of the more premium stuff to indicate a supply/demand mismatch.

I don't have the full house experience that some will but much prefer Zegna over Ford as a house. Both are hit and miss to me but a lot more misses at Ford. But likely Zegna doesn't have the "buzz" that Ford does and would be interested to know how well they do sell.

It seems that the Zegna name if nothing else still fits with the strategy if they want to go upscale, but not especially interested in what they would bring out. I would like to get quite a few of the current line at prices I'm willing to pay and that has been only occasionally so far and sounds like it may be not at all in the near future if this drives prices up.

On the other end of it, I guess I will buy Uomo the next time I see it at TJM under $20 as a backup, if they are still getting it.

 

[GWM]

Looks to me like Lauder is letting go of anything sub-$100 and going fully designer prestige/psuedo-niche. Tom Ford (which is overpriced) will be their new baseline outside of their own house brand. Looks like it's time to tune out from this house unless you're willing to spend bank on Malle, Le Labo, etc.

Sad to see the Aramis division killed off, but at least the original scent folds back into the parent company. Aramis originally launched as a Lauder scent in 1964 anyway, and was only given it's own house a year later due to demand. I'm stocked up on the gentlemen's collection anyway so if they all go unicorn now, I'm set. Let it all burn lol

The sad truth is Aramis catered literally to a dying customer base, like Sears and Avon. Outside collectors and fragheads like us, nobody under 50 in the mainstream was really buying Aramis. It was getting that "Old Spice/English Leather vibe" of being for retirees etc. Anything released under the Aramis brand went straight into discounters because the Aramis name carried no clout with the Instafluencerhypebeast crowd.

News like this makes it clear that more and more the future is in independent perfumers, as the general sentiment with the mainstream industry is to homogenize options for the "lower" classes, and push novelty/trend/limited editions for the rich that buy perfume as baubles or displays of vanity. Lauder has chosen the latter direction as per their portfolio choices.

What's the alternative? At least Lauder gives the brands what they need to keep their formulations up to date and reliable. L'Oreal doesn't do that, so everything gets cheapened to shit, and LVMH is going the same route as Lauder -- just look at the new Guerlain's for proof of that.

 

[Civil to strangers]

Oh there will still be drugstore fragrances, it just will all be celebrity stuff.

 

[hednic]

Oh there will still be drugstore fragrances, it just will all be celebrity stuff.

What a horrible thought!

 

[PStoller]

Oh there will still be drugstore fragrances, it just will all be celebrity stuff.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest there'd be nothing at all, only that it would be the bottom of the extant barrel and/or farmed out to less reputable manufacturers with little interest in QA. Which is sad, because there's no reason one can't make a fortune selling volume of stuff that smells pretty darned good for significantly less than $100.

 

[Civil to strangers]

Oh for sure. I find it sad because I’m also in the search of a cheap thrill, most of the super high end is out of my budget unless I get it used.

 

[PStoller]

Oh for sure. I find it sad because I’m also in the search of a cheap thrill, most of the super high end is out of my budget unless I get it used.

This is partly why I entered the hobby by scooping up vintage on eBay, et al., after having started with a couple of current offerings. If you steer clear of unicorns (or bargain-hunt skillfully), you can get some serious thrills for relatively little. (Let’s please just forget about the cumulative cost.)

I find it a useful baseline for evaluating current offerings and their value at retail. Not that companies should be selling new bottles for the price of someone’s used mid-century drugstore stuff, but if their $300 niche perfume doesn’t smell as good as some old mass-market Mennen, maybe they don’t deserve my money.

 

[mikeperez23]

Sad news indeed.

Wonder what Lauder will do with their feminine classics (Youth Dew, etc?)

 

[otterlake]

Sad news indeed.

Wonder what Lauder will do with their feminine classics (Youth Dew, etc?)

Like Aramis (original), I imagine they'll survive a little while longer.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

For the most part, indie perfumers aren't exactly catering to the "lower classes," either, in terms of accessible style, distribution, or price point. This news points to the death of the drugstore fragrance as a category, more as confirmation than any actual change.

If it's any comfort, these market trends tend to be cyclical. EL's shift to upscale-only frags (or redefining "midscale," depending on your POV) leaves a wide enough gap in the market that, sooner or later, someone else will regard as an opportunity. Perhaps even the next CEO of EL.

The drugstore era died with the birth of online discounters. So long as there's extra inventory from high-end brands to be liquidated somewhere for half the price or less, there will be no need for fragrances that are made to be sold at those price points. It's why Coty and Arden became the American versions of Interparfums and Eurotalia, as there's no money in selling their own brands anymore, since they have the reputation for being cheap. Hell, even the designers they distribute get besmirched for being under their umbrella (ella ella ey ey).

What's the alternative? At least Lauder gives the brands what they need to keep their formulations up to date and reliable. L'Oreal doesn't do that, so everything gets cheapened to shit, and LVMH is going the same route as Lauder -- just look at the new Guerlain's for proof of that.

Oh I wasn't suggesting there's an alternative for them. They go where the money is, like any business does. I'm merely lamenting loss and disapproving of their business direction. I said nothing of their reformulation practices; however now that you mention it, if they're axing a lot of older stuff anyway, there will be no need to spend the enormous sums they do to maintain integrity on their older releases.

As for L'Oreal, we've already determined they're Satan incarnate to the perfume industry, and I kinda sorta tuned out LVMH a long time ago too, outside of surgical strikes on discounted niche or designer brands when I find them (Guerlains, MFKs, etc). Their cash cow is Dior, which is why they stuck Kurkdjian on it when Demachy retired.

Make no mistake, I'm not suggesting there's a -good- luxury conglomerate to put your faith in and stand behind, because there isn't. There never was, and there never will be. It was just a lot nicer when they at least had more price tiers spread across a wider swath low to high, and I don't mean old Coty cheap. As I told Stoller, that market tier died when discounters became a thing.

The point of my comment was to remark on Lauder pulling up the mid-price ladder and effectively leaving the "standard" aspirational designer market behind. VC&A have done it too (even though they're just one house), when they axed everything and went "full niche mode". It's a sign of the times for sure, but I still don't have to like it, right? 🤣

P.S: I like your new icon photo.

Oh there will still be drugstore fragrances, it just will all be celebrity stuff.

Funny you say that, because those are dying out too. McGraw, Madonna, Britney Spears, and all that other stuff is starting to go for big bucks on the bay because it's all discontinued and fans of those artists want the memorabilia.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest there'd be nothing at all, only that it would be the bottom of the extant barrel and/or farmed out to less reputable manufacturers with little interest in QA. Which is sad, because there's no reason one can't make a fortune selling volume of stuff that smells pretty darned good for significantly less than $100.

Avon might be dying, but the MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) perfume market itself is not. Brands like Oriflame, Armand Dupree, Jafra, and others still make a killing. I also think discount boutique brands like The Body Shop, Bath & Body Works, and budget brands at mall kiosks fill that void if you really need cheapo smells roughly equal to what drugstore scents once were.

 

[Oviatt]

Wasn't meant as a slight. If you read my whole post, you'll know that I excluded people in the fragrance community.

Do not feel slighted at all! I did read your whole post (comme d'habitude) but just meant that as a fraghead AND a dying base, I would be happy to scoop up any crumbs that might fall off of the Aramis table.