Does in-house controversy affect your opinion on frags?

[Uniquefrags]

After a long bout of anosmia (thank you, covid) I am slowly returning to this hobby. I thought I'd start with some samples again, and House of Sillage has been on my "to try" list for a while (despite the garish bottle designs).

I ran a search to get a feel for the general view of their frags and to help select my samples, only to discover that there is a lot of controversy around the founder. This is certainly not a company people are happy to work for, wth many calling it a toxic environment.* I also recall the same was said about working for Bond No. 9.* No doubt in a competitive space, business is cut-throat and pressures are high, but I feel iffy now about supporting the company with my hard-earned money if the employees are being ill-treated.
*These are glassdoor reviews from employees that came up in a regular search and I have no idea if they're accurate; however there are a lot of them so it seems true.

It got me thinking- are you bothered by the in-house drama and controversy behind the juice, or are you able to separate the problematic owners from the scent?
Also, if anyone has sampled their frags, please let me know your thoughts on them. I found very few reviews!

 

[StylinLA]

Short answer is it doesn't factor into my feeling much.

It may be a bit of a "boomer" thing- not sure. I worked at a big corporation over 30 years. Some of the younger people who worked there may well have gone onto sites like Glass Door and proclaimed it a "toxic environment." I don't take reviews at places like Glass Door, Yelp to be gospel.

A smallish company may well have a harsh, hard to work for owner and management structure. If the environment is really truly bad, that will catch up to company and kill it soon enough, with or without your purchases.

I had never heard of this company and I've been haunting this place for over 12 years, so they're not setting the world on fire. The very few reviews is an indicator too.

If the "ill treated" employees continue to stay on staff, it sort of begs the question of just how bad is it if they are still working there. Not sure what the details are but I presume they are working of their of their own free will and I don't think you're talking about child labor or anything like that. I had a boss who did some things that were def not cool. Another person in the department took great offense and started complaining up the management chain and to HR. The pestering got so relentless and persistent, it blurred the lines for management and HR- Is the superviser's offense that bad, or is the complainer just trying to manipulate us into removing a supervisor they don't like? This has become more common in the "gotcha" world now.

But now that you've done this level of digging on them, if it bothers you, just leave them alone. It's not like there are not thousands of alternatives.

The small perfumer/niche side of this business strikes me as probably loaded with egomaniacal owners.

 

[Monsieur Montana]

After a long bout of anosmia (thank you, covid) I am slowly returning to this hobby. I thought I'd start with some samples again, and House of Sillage has been on my "to try" list for a while (despite the garish bottle designs).

I ran a search to get a feel for the general view of their frags and to help select my samples, only to discover that there is a lot of controversy around the founder. This is certainly not a company people are happy to work for, wth many calling it a toxic environment.* I also recall the same was said about working for Bond No. 9.* No doubt in a competitive space, business is cut-throat and pressures are high, but I feel iffy now about supporting the company with my hard-earned money if the employees are being ill-treated.
*These are glassdoor reviews from employees that came up in a regular search and I have no idea if they're accurate; however there are a lot of them so it seems true.

It got me thinking- are you bothered by the in-house drama and controversy behind the juice, or are you able to separate the problematic owners from the scent?
Also, if anyone has sampled their frags, please let me know your thoughts on them. I found very few reviews!

I don't think he uses slaves at work. They are free to leave if they do not like their work or the conditions. A boss can't be a friend, he is the boss.
He has a bussines to run, paychecks to pay. Some are very difficult to cope with, they are even toxic as you said but at the end of the day we decide if we can accept inadequate work conditions or not. Being a "cry baby" isn't the solution to this problem in my opinion.

 

[_Nicolas_]

@Uniquefrags Interesting question, it has never been an issue for me yet but I think it would depend on what the individual controversy was. I was seeing people criticizing others online for wearing stuff like Balenciaga Pour Homme because of the recent controversy with them, which is absurd as it's a discontinued fragrance and no-one currently associated with the house is profiting from its sales! Just pointless hyperemotional virtue signalling/moralising....

 

[Nom de Guerre]

Sure, I do take it into account but it has to be something substantial.

 

[Paddington]

If a house does something I don’t like I won’t give them business, personally I find it odd to acknowledge some of the bullshit a houses does yet still happily hand over your money.

Example roja being a charlatan yet still buying his stuff. Blows my mind

 

[chypre]

A lot of factors impact my experience of a brand, and how ethical a company and their leaders are may well be a determining factor in whether I buy their products or not. There is one company that I try to avoid due to their predatory destruction of precious heritage perfumes, for example.

 

[swellcat]

I feel iffy now about supporting the company with my hard-earned money if the employees are being ill-treated.

Thank you for that concern, one that isn't superficial or superfluous. It would be wonderful if we could all vote with dollars/money so as to bring about more ethical, humane conditions for workers.

 

[_Nicolas_]

There is one company that I try to avoid due to their predatory destruction of precious heritage perfumes, for example.

Can you share who that is please, @chypre?

 

[Paddington]

Can you share who that is please, @chypre?

i have ;a 3 way guess between guerlain caron and penhalgions

 

[_Nicolas_]

i have ;a 3 way guess between guerlain caron and penhalgions

Well Penhaligon's just discontinue everything I love and Guerlain aren't really doing too badly, so perhaps it's Caron! 😁

 

[chypre]

I try to be a pragmatist, if a company decides to reformulate cheaply, it's painful but let's face it, everyone does it. So if I were to boycott companies for their third rate reformulations, I'd have nothing left to wear.

But anyway, it's Dior. Leaving aside what they did to the Miss Dior name several years ago.. LVMH bought out Jean Patou a few years ago, discontinued the classic civet-laden Joy, and lo and behold, a few months later, Dior's Joy (fruity-floral, of course) was launched. I've never forgiven them for it.

 

[hednic]

are you bothered by the in-house drama and controversy behind the juice

Not at all.

 

[Uniquefrags]

But now that you've done this level of digging on them, if it bothers you, just leave them alone. It's not like there are not thousands of alternatives.

Absolutely, and it is essentially what I have done. I was just curious to hear other perspectives. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I don't think he uses slaves at work. They are free to leave if they do not like their work or the conditions.

Based on the 40+ former employees who left feedback, they do leave; often within a few weeks. It seems a miserable place to work if the turnover is that high.

I think it would depend on what the individual controversy was.

Totally agree! I think it's fair to judge on a case by case basis.

personally I find it odd to acknowledge some of the bullshit a houses does yet still happily hand over your money.

Good point. I can understand for some, the internal/ background stuff has nothing to do with the juice you're buying. I just realized that I am someone who cannot separate the two. If I hear of unfair/unethical practices, I'd rather look elsewhere.

It would be wonderful if we could all vote with dollars/money so as to bring about more ethical, humane conditions for workers.

Absolutely. It was repeatedly mentioned that they were paid below industry standards and the work environment affected people's mental peace and personal lives. I was rather shocked, as you can imagine. I was looking for perfume reviews and got my eyes opened to something much more important (to me).

Not at all.

That's what I was expecting to hear from everyone; since that internal stuff has nothing to do with the quality of the fragrances. May I ask, @hednic have you sniffed any of their offerings? I'm curious if the output is decent (though I'm no longer interested in sampling).

 

[_Nicolas_]

Example roja being a charlatan yet still buying his stuff. Blows my mind

In what way exactly is he a charlatan, anyway? His fragrances sound hugely overpriced so I've never bothered to find out. Is it that he's trying to pass himself off as a perfumer?

 

[Paddington]

In what way exactly is he a charlatan, anyway? His fragrances sound hugely overpriced so I've never bothered to find out. Is it that he's trying to pass himself off as a perfumer?

trying to pass him self as a perfumer yes alongside massively overpriced fragrances that are handed out like candy to influencers

 

[Dorje123]

In what way exactly is he a charlatan, anyway? His fragrances sound hugely overpriced so I've never bothered to find out. Is it that he's trying to pass himself off as a perfumer?

Maybe, but imo the truth is likely not so clear. In the past he's credited perfumers, but I think its likely the perfumer is also a bit of a creative director and liaison with the fragrance company, whose in-house perfumers are really doing a lot of the work. Its possible Roja no longer needs a perfumer to be a liaison and can work with the fragrance company more directly. No matter who is credited you can smell a lot of similarities in Roja and also Puredistance perfumes, which are made by Robertet. No matter what you think of the arrangement, Robertet has some of the best perfumery materials in the world, both naturals and aromachemicals, and the truth is Roja's and Puredistance perfumes do use very expensive materials that, imo, actually justify their price. If you're going to pick on houses for offering questionable value, there are far more egregious examples like PdM, Creed, and many more. Not saying they aren't good and don't use top-end aromachemicals, they do, but they aren't anywhere close to Roja or Puredistance in terms of using high quality naturals yet their prices are comparable. I know for sure some Rojas use real ambergris, and their musk accords are MUCH closer to real deer musk, civet and castoreum than anyone else in the industry. And nobody is even close in terms of citrus topnotes either. IMO you do get what you pay for with both Roja and Puredistance.

 

[Paddington]

Maybe, but imo the truth is likely not so clear. In the past he's credited perfumers, but I think its likely the perfumer is also a bit of a creative director and liaison with the fragrance company, whose in-house perfumers are really doing a lot of the work. Its possible Roja no longer needs a perfumer to be a liaison and can work with the fragrance company more directly. No matter who is credited you can smell a lot of similarities in Roja and also Puredistance perfumes, which are made by Robertet. No matter what you think of the arrangement, Robertet has some of the best perfumery materials in the world, both naturals and aromachemicals, and the truth is Roja's and Puredistance perfumes do use very expensive materials that, imo, actually justify their price. If you're going to pick on houses for offering questionable value, there are far more egregious examples like PdM, Creed, and many more. Not saying they aren't good and don't use top-end aromachemicals, they do, but they aren't anywhere close to Roja or Puredistance in terms of using high quality naturals yet their prices are comparable. I know for sure some Rojas use real ambergris, and their musk accords are MUCH closer to real deer musk, civet and castoreum than anyone else in the industry. And nobody is even close in terms of citrus topnotes either. IMO you do get what you pay for with both Roja and Puredistance.

they no longer use Robertet now apparently its some place in the middle east now

 

[Ken_Russell]

Having never been affected personally by this, at least not so far, (though extremely unlikely) still not fully excluding this in future. Especially if one or more houses do enjoy will be affected permanently not just and not so much in their public image/perception as much as if compounded with a more steep, easily noticeable decline in more or less objectively noticeable quality.

 

[Dorje123]

they no longer use Robertet now apparently its some place in the middle east now

If that's the case maybe Amouage, they're the only ones with the right quality, despite their horrific reformulations under Chong... I hear they are trying to return their offerings to their former glory. I've often thought that many Amouage materials have a similar character to Robertet and wonder if there's any association between the two, that maybe Amouage got their start with the help of Robertet.

In any case, I hope Roja manages to keep the same quality, it's undeniably good in terms of materials and I also like his style, imo many Roja fragrances are really excellent and the new Perfume Cologne line is not a bad deal at sale prices either.