2010's: Decade of Ambroxide. Who actually used it best?

[Varanis Ridari]

It's no secret that ever since Bleu de Chanel (2010) introduced the aromachemical base note ambroxide to the mainstream, that is has replaced almost all other base notes in designer masculines of the decade, being spun into everything from freshies to orientals.

Hell, Creed Aventus (2010) pretty much did similar in the luxury/prestige masculine realm too, more or less because growing economy of scale forbade the continued use of ambergris in their bigger-selling perfumes, but the clones that followed showed it a wise artistic choice.

Since Bleu de Chanel and Aventus, there has been a flood of masculines from earlier competitors like Prada Luna Rossa (2012) and Paco Rabanne Invictus (2013), to "loudness war" entries like Dior Sauvage (2015), and late-decade entrants like Calvin Klein Obssessed for Men (2017) and Montblanc Explorer (2019).

The question is, with so much rampant use of ambroxide under its many patented variants like Ambrox or Orcanox, often combined with equally-recent synthetic wood notes like norlimbanol, who actually has used it best?

Also, I understand there is a demographic here on Basenotes that totally hates this base type, and I've sniffed enough oakmoss, mysore sandalwood, tonkin musk, and oud to relate, but I'm looking for input along the lines of what scents people think are enjoyable that implement this most-abused of current chemical wonder notes. Thanks!

 

[Bigsly]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

On my blog, I wrote in a recent post about how I was sitting near the door to a store and a few guys walked by smelling like body odor and ambroxan. I wonder why anyone would think that was appealing. LOL. At one time, I tried to like ambroxan-rich scents, but it's just too irritating.

Over at Fragrantica, someone reviewed Y for Men by YSL with this claim:

"I'm not sure why people here keep saying they smell ambroxan in this!!!!
The molecule they smell is IFF's Amber Xtreme and Ambrinol, not ambroxan. Please people, stop pretending you are experts."

Whether there is ambroxan in large amounts, small amounts, or no amount in Y, the point is that other molecules can certainly smell very similar, and at this point, ambroxan is more or less a "note," regardless of the main molecule (s) producing the smell (just like "tobacco," "sandalwood," etc.). Just like with "woody/ambers," of which there are several, most of us just smell the note, but can't identify exactly which molecule or combination of molecules are generating that quality. To me, the ambroxan note is so obvious that it's just bad perfumery unless I can barely detect it, assuming that the scent is otherwise reasonably strong if not very strong, of course. In any case, I have yet to try Y, so I have no preconceptions about it; I simply have little interest in these kinds of fragrances, ambroxan-heavy, ambroxan similar molecule-heavy, or just some sort of "freshie."

 

[Redneck Perfumisto]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

Didn't realize this is why I like Montblanc Explorer, but it makes sense. There's a searing freshness that I love - straight out of Bleu de Chanel EDT and Dior Sauvage.

I think the best may be Bond no. 9 Scent Of Peace For Him. Super-Sauvage, but with a certain cut crystalline clarity and precision that Sauvage lacks.

I love all of these "AmBro" scents! :wink:

 

[Bigsly]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

Didn't realize this is why I like Montblanc Explorer, but it makes sense. There's a searing freshness that I love - straight out of Bleu de Chanel EDT and Dior Sauvage.

I think the best may be Bond no. 9 Scent Of Peace For Him. Super-Sauvage, but with a certain cut crystalline clarity and precision that Sauvage lacks.

I love all of these "AmBro" scents! :wink:

That's exactly right - it's a searing quality, and I have no doubt that a lot of people enjoy it !

 

[cpp214]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

I haven't smelled a ton of new releases that feature Ambroxan, but of those, Sauvage EDP is the best example of how to use it right, IMO.

The whole composition smells very smooth and rounded, especially compared to Sauvage EDT. It doesn't have that "searing" quality that Ambroxan typically has. Honestly, Ambroxan would be way down on the list of notes I smell most prominently in Sauvage EDP. It's more of a supporting note that's used deftly in this case.

 

[otterlake]

Andy Tauer is releasing his ambroxan-centric fragrance soon. I'm very interested to see how that turns out.

 

[d r e]

If Ambroxan is that Spicy, Sharp like note in Sauvage EDT, than I'd say:

Mont Blanc Explorer uses it in a noticeable, yet pleasurable amount. Just enough that it gives that addicting feel to it.

Sauvage EDT seems to like overdose it, but I can see why somebody would like it like that. Sauvage EDP seems smoother and more like Explorer in the amount used.

I don't really notice that note in Invictus, and if it is there, it's blended in a really nice way. Maybe it blends with the Grapefruit to give an added bite alongside the Citrus. Either way its pleasantly used here if so.

 

[Bigsly]

If Ambroxan is that Spicy, Sharp like note in Sauvage EDT, than I'd say:

Mont Blanc Explorer uses it in a noticeable, yet pleasurable amount. Just enough that it gives that addicting feel to it.

Sauvage EDT seems to like overdose it, but I can see why somebody would like it like that. Sauvage EDP seems smoother and more like Explorer in the amount used.

I don't really notice that note in Invictus, and if it is there, it's blended in a really nice way. Maybe it blends with the Grapefruit to give an added bite alongside the Citrus. Either way its pleasantly used here if so.

Remember that some people are more sensitive to it than others, and of course some enjoy it while others do not. Also, in the history of perfumery, it's often an "overdose" of a synthetic that leads to a "bit hit," such as with dihyromyrcenol in Cool Water and other scents.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

On my blog, I wrote in a recent post about how I was sitting near the door to a store and a few guys walked by smelling like body odor and ambroxan. I wonder why anyone would think that was appealing. LOL. At one time, I tried to like ambroxan-rich scents, but it's just too irritating.

Over at Fragrantica, someone reviewed Y for Men by YSL with this claim:

"I'm not sure why people here keep saying they smell ambroxan in this!!!!
The molecule they smell is IFF's Amber Xtreme and Ambrinol, not ambroxan. Please people, stop pretending you are experts."

Whether there is ambroxan in large amounts, small amounts, or no amount in Y, the point is that other molecules can certainly smell very similar, and at this point, ambroxan is more or less a "note," regardless of the main molecule (s) producing the smell (just like "tobacco," "sandalwood," etc.). Just like with "woody/ambers," of which there are several, most of us just smell the note, but can't identify exactly which molecule or combination of molecules are generating that quality. To me, the ambroxan note is so obvious that it's just bad perfumery unless I can barely detect it, assuming that the scent is otherwise reasonably strong if not very strong, of course. In any case, I have yet to try Y, so I have no preconceptions about it; I simply have little interest in these kinds of fragrances, ambroxan-heavy, ambroxan similar molecule-heavy, or just some sort of "freshie."

I think you focused so hard on going "galaxy brain" on my errant title that you missed the point completely, so I fixed the title.

If you read my post, you would know that I realize there are several different patented captives based on the ambroxide molecule, like Ambrofix, Ambrinol, and Amber Xtreme. I already mentioned two of them.

With all due respect, the long-winded "I know more than everyone" aesthetic of trying to tell us what we can and cannot smell is no different than "pretending you're experts" in tone, and going at length about your disliking of the note doesn't even answer the question.

I said in the last part of the original post that I understand there is a very vocal demographic that doesn't like this note, and this thread shouldn't even be something that someone who dislikes synthetic ambergris should even respond to, since this thread is about discussing ambroxide-based scents that you enjoy.

Bill doesn't weigh in on threads about things he doesn't like.
Bill contributes constructively to topics about things he enjoys
Be like bill.

Godspeed Bigsly

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

Didn't realize this is why I like Montblanc Explorer, but it makes sense. There's a searing freshness that I love - straight out of Bleu de Chanel EDT and Dior Sauvage.

I think the best may be Bond no. 9 Scent Of Peace For Him. Super-Sauvage, but with a certain cut crystalline clarity and precision that Sauvage lacks.

I love all of these "AmBro" scents! :wink:

My problem is I've always enjoyed "high art" and pop culture equally, so I was doomed to enjoy barnyard ouds, florid chypres, and mall scents all the same. Something literally has to come across like it was done without any care or feeling for me to hate it, regardless of year or category. My number of "red" reviews is relatively small compared to "yellow" and "green" ones.

 

[Bigsly]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

I think you focused so hard on going "galaxy brain" on my errant title that you missed the point completely, so I fixed the title.

If you read my post, you would know that I realize there are several different patented captives based on the ambroxide molecule, like Ambrofix, Ambrinol, and Amber Xtreme. I already mentioned two of them.

With all due respect, the long-winded "I know more than everyone" aesthetic of trying to tell us what we can and cannot smell is no different than "pretending you're experts" in tone, and going at length about your disliking of the note doesn't even answer the question.

I said in the last part of the original post that I understand there is a very vocal demographic that doesn't like this note, and this thread shouldn't even be something that someone who dislikes synthetic ambergris should even respond to, since this thread is about discussing ambroxide-based scents that you enjoy.

Bill doesn't weigh in on threads about things he doesn't like.
Bill contributes constructively to topics about things he enjoys
Be like bill.

Godspeed Bigsly

I just wanted to get some information out there to combat myths that might develop, as seems common among newbies. If I find an ambroxan-rich scent I enjoy, I'll be sure to write up another post for this thread!

 

[Diddy]

Why are we starting with BdC? Cause of its popularity? I’m tired and may have missed you stating that part. Ambroxide was used prior to the release of BdC though. I know Escentric Molecules was doing it at least 2 years prior to BdC. But I’m also reading some stuff that it was actually developed in the 1950’s as a substitute for ambergris. Is this true? If so, then I’ll theorize that who did it best would be one of the manufacturers prior to BdC who was using it so well that we thought we were getting real ambergris. Of course, I’m completely spitballing here and have no real education on the matter. Educate me more and I’ll give you a better rounded opinion.

I’ll also state that ‘redneck feller chosem a goodern.’

 

[Redneck Perfumisto]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

That's exactly right - it's a searing quality, and I have no doubt that a lot of people enjoy it !

I certainly do. My interest in such fragrances is more long-term and day-to-day for moderate use of the note, and periodic for intense uses, like Sauvage EDT.

Andy Tauer is releasing his ambroxan-centric fragrance soon. I'm very interested to see how that turns out.

I will be very interested to see how he 'keeps it niche".

If Ambroxan is that Spicy, Sharp like note in Sauvage EDT, than I'd say:

Mont Blanc Explorer uses it in a noticeable, yet pleasurable amount. Just enough that it gives that addicting feel to it.

Sauvage EDT seems to like overdose it, but I can see why somebody would like it like that. Sauvage EDP seems smoother and more like Explorer in the amount used.

I don't really notice that note in Invictus, and if it is there, it's blended in a really nice way. Maybe it blends with the Grapefruit to give an added bite alongside the Citrus. Either way its pleasantly used here if so.

Strong agreement here on all points.

My problem is I've always enjoyed "high art" and pop culture equally, so I was doomed to enjoy barnyard ouds, florid chypres, and mall scents all the same. Something literally has to come across like it was done without any care or feeling for me to hate it, regardless of year or category. My number of "red" reviews is relatively small compared to "yellow" and "green" ones.

No problem with that, if we truly believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I feel the same. Meet the artist half-way by learning to understand beauty widely, and the world is filled with the stuff! :happy:

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Why are we starting with BdC? Cause of its popularity? I’m tired and may have missed you stating that part. Ambroxide was used prior to the release of BdC though. I know Escentric Molecules was doing it at least 2 years prior to BdC. But I’m also reading some stuff that it was actually developed in the 1950’s as a substitute for ambergris. Is this true? If so, then I’ll theorize that who did it best would be one of the manufacturers prior to BdC who was using it so well that we thought we were getting real ambergris. Of course, I’m completely spitballing here and have no real education on the matter. Educate me more and I’ll give you a better rounded opinion.

I’ll also state that ‘redneck feller chosem a goodern.’

It's not about who did it first, it's about who popularized using it in heavy quantities as a base note in this case, and BdC was that gateway drug for the rest of the industry. You'd be making a bad-faith statement by trying to ignore the fact that prior to 2010, anything in the mainstream containing it did so in much more minute amounts, like the 2000's woodyambers such as YSL L'Homme.

Plus just like Bigsly's first post above, you came in here trying to "prove me wrong" by debating the semantics of my introduction, although you didn't waffle completely on the question, so I'll give you an E for effort.

 

[Redneck Perfumisto]

Why are we starting with BdC? Cause of its popularity? I’m tired and may have missed you stating that part. Ambroxide was used prior to the release of BdC though. I know Escentric Molecules was doing it at least 2 years prior to BdC. But I’m also reading some stuff that it was actually developed in the 1950’s as a substitute for ambergris. Is this true? If so, then I’ll theorize that who did it best would be one of the manufacturers prior to BdC who was using it so well that we thought we were getting real ambergris. Of course, I’m completely spitballing here and have no real education on the matter. Educate me more and I’ll give you a better rounded opinion.

I’ll also state that ‘redneck feller chosem a goodern.’

Thanks! :beer:

You make a great point, and I think it really boils down to BdC EdT being the most famous early example of a kind of perfumery STYLE rather than ambrox usage per se - a style that ODs ambrox(whatever) as "base-forward freshness" using the fresh facet of what is normally more of a base note. I think this was not as nicely or cleanly done prior to that time, with certain other fragrances with big woody ambers.

At least that is how I reckon it! :cheesy:

 

[Redneck Perfumisto]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

My problem is I've always enjoyed "high art" and pop culture equally, so I was doomed to enjoy barnyard ouds, florid chypres, and mall scents all the same. Something literally has to come across like it was done without any care or feeling for me to hate it, regardless of year or category. My number of "red" reviews is relatively small compared to "yellow" and "green" ones.

Now you're wearing Wanted tonight - that one is a fave of mine, too, but it really fooled me on the ambrox. I dug the freshness and longevity and didn't see where they were connected. Subtle!!!

 

[Varanis Ridari]

Re: 2010's: Decade of Ambroxan. Who actually used it best?

Now you're wearing Wanted tonight - that one is a fave of mine, too, but it really fooled me on the ambrox. I dug the freshness and longevity and didn't see where they were connected. Subtle!!!

It doesn't show up until the very end because of the lemon, ginger, and incense notes piled on top. Wanted is definitely not going for "Bloo Joose" points like Sauvage, Y, Dylan Blue, and so many others in this field.

 

[Bigsly]

It's not about who did it first, it's about who popularized using it in heavy quantities as a base note in this case, and BdC was that gateway drug for the rest of the industry. You'd be making a bad-faith statement by trying to ignore the fact that prior to 2010, anything in the mainstream containing it did so in much more minute amounts, like the 2000's woodyambers such as YSL L'Homme.

Plus just like Bigsly's first post above, you came in here trying to "prove me wrong" by debating the semantics of my introduction, although you didn't waffle completely on the question, so I'll give you an E for effort.

I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong; I was merely pointing out that a myth may be developing that could lead to people criticizing what you had to say! But as to the title of this thread, one could ask the question, how do you know which fragrances used it and which ones used a similar molecule? I'm more interested in "notes" rather than the actual molecules, except in fragrances that are so overloaded with a chemical that it's too irritating for me to wear. I would ask, though, about the importance of knowing whether ambroxan or something like it was used, because it's certainly possible that I might like a scent that has a tiny amount of it, and I don't detect it at all. Perhaps it would be best for you to list what you consider to be the most popular ambroxan-rich scents and ask which ones readers think is the best composition. Just a thought, though, I'm not trying to suggest this thread is worthless or anything along those lines, but there is the potential for some confusion, it seems.

 

[Varanis Ridari]

I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong; I was merely pointing out that a myth may be developing that could lead to people criticizing what you had to say! But as to the title of this thread, one could ask the question, how do you know which fragrances used it and which ones used a similar molecule? I'm more interested in "notes" rather than the actual molecules, except in fragrances that are so overloaded with a chemical that it's too irritating for me to wear. I would ask, though, about the importance of knowing whether ambroxan or something like it was used, because it's certainly possible that I might like a scent that has a tiny amount of it, and I don't detect it at all. Perhaps it would be best for you to list what you consider to be the most popular ambroxan-rich scents and ask which ones readers think is the best composition. Just a thought, though, I'm not trying to suggest this thread is worthless or anything along those lines, but there is the potential for some confusion, it seems.

Ambroxide (which cannot be patented because it occurs in real ambergris) is the base molecule for all of the more-complex custom/captive versions (e.g. Ambrox Super) that you see listed as notes in this category of fragrance. At the risk of sounding reductive, it is reasonable to conclude that if a custom synthetic ambergris is being used by a house contracting out to IFF, Firmenich, Givaudan, and the like, it is based on ambroxide.

To use anything else at this point would be at great cost to research and develop with in-house chemists, although I wouldn't doubt some extreme luxury niche houses doing that, however real ambergris tinctures might as well be used at that point. If you really want to get technical, stuff like timberol was used before Ambrofix this and Orcanox that, but I also doubt anyone is using that outside of niche or older designer scents where it was used.

Now, you can take my word for it and move on, or spend the hours scouring the internet (likely reading the same research materials as me) to try and find fault in the presentation of my thread topic and tell me how I should compose it to your approval, but I'm done replying to you either way.

 

[Bigsly]

Ambroxide (which cannot be patented because it occurs in real ambergris) is the base molecule for all of the more-complex custom/captive versions (e.g. Ambrox Super) that you see listed as notes in this category of fragrance. At the risk of sounding reductive, it is reasonable to conclude that if a custom synthetic ambergris is being used by a house contracting out to IFF, Firmenich, Givaudan, and the like, it is based on ambroxide.

To use anything else at this point would be at great cost to research and develop with in-house chemists, although I wouldn't doubt some extreme luxury niche houses doing that, however real ambergris tinctures might as well be used at that point. If you really want to get technical, stuff like timberol was used before Ambrofix this and Orcanox that, but I also doubt anyone is using that outside of niche or older designer scents where it was used.

Now, you can take my word for it and move on, or spend the hours scouring the internet (likely reading the same research materials as me) to try and find fault in the presentation of my thread topic and tell me how I should compose it to your approval, but I'm done replying to you either way.

I don't disagree with you on that point. There is, though, a question of whether a scent that does contain ambroxan, but does not possess it in quantities that perfumers would consider significant, is an "ambroxan scent" or whtaever you want to call it (perhaps "the note of ambrox?"). If you don't want to address that question, it's fine with me, because I tend to dislike these fragrances, but I would be very surprised if few others didn't want to know the answer to it!